This podcast episode provided a deep dive into the life of a soldier, revealing the many facets of military life, from the adrenaline-filled thrill of racing to the ground-level realities of combat and the complexities of transitioning to civilian life. Tune in to get an authentic glimpse of the soldier's journey and the valuable lessons learned along the way.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
This podcast episode provided a deep dive into the life of a soldier, revealing the many facets of military life, from the adrenaline-filled thrill of racing to the ground-level realities of combat and the complexities of transitioning to civilian life. Tune in to get an authentic glimpse of the soldier's journey and the valuable lessons learned along the way.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Let's hit record.
Speaker 2:Let's hit record.
Speaker 1:You know, and as every, every single episode I say this we hit record, because we end up just chatting before we hit record and all the good stories go away. Exactly, will welcome to the show. I appreciate you coming on. You have a book out? Damn the Valley, let's knock out the book real quick, man. Let's you know we're going to do like two minutes on a book and then later on we'll come back to the book because we're right in the middle of this marketing thing. Man, let's get into it.
Speaker 1:So, damn the Valley. It's about your tour in Afghanistan and it was kind of interesting when I, when I was reading through it, you signed up for the 18X-ray program and you weren't young. I mean, I hate to say you're not young, but let's. Let's look at something here. When you're this can I know I'm kind of going off base here, but let's look at it this way when you're in high school football, boom, you're good to go. Get in college football year around 20, 21,. You get picked up for the NFL, you start working the years, you get a little bit older and your your cutoff date is usually around 32, 33. Now you're 26 when you join the Army and you're going into 18X-ray program, which is essentially the NFL of the Army. So you're a little bit older. You're a little bit older and I read the, the extra where you thought about going to the Marines but you're like you had no idea where, where you would end up on the wall. So 18X-ray, brother. And then let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when I, when I went to sign up, I was just that the dumb recruit, you know. I mean I was an adrenaline junkie at the time already and I was doing some you know racing cars and stuff. So I love it and I'm like all right, you know, life's, life's a part over here. I'm hitting that reset button, I'm getting into the military. Let's just let's go full on.
Speaker 2:And I kind of looked at it in the way of you know it's 2008. Afghanistan's winding down. I see I'm a little older, I can see the, the writing on the wall and I'm like, eh, you know who's involved in fighting around the world, who's constantly got something going on special operations. So that was the reason behind the 18X-ray program. However, going going back in the older and wiser that I am now because I mean even the recruiter tried telling me he was just like look man, like you, you literally got two things wrong on the ASFAB. Like you can choose anything you want, what do you want to do? And I'm like, no, that's it, freaking green beret, that's for me. And they, I probably should have gone the Intel route and move the, you know, put the tools in the box and then more of an accent by the time getting over there. But you know, I mean it's who knows if I went that route. You know, number one, this wouldn't have ever gotten written.
Speaker 1:But you know, if you go Intel route you don't know what you're going to get into. You know you can end up being like cryptos again, human comment and up on some you know outpost and an article listening into like whatever Chinese defense, russians or something else Crap I mean. Especially if you had, especially if you know you had a great ASFAB and let's say you took the D lab and they're like, oh, we need someone to speak. You know, to Golic, you end up in some outposts. You know end up in some ship outside of Philippines.
Speaker 2:You're like oh yeah, this is cool. Oh, I know guys that did too. Like I mean, that's, I was assigned. I actually went back to selection after this deployment, smoked it and got assigned Russian, so that was fun.
Speaker 1:Sorry about that interruption, but let's talk about that 18XR program. And you know your initial steps. You go to. You go to Fort Benning, home of the infantry, and what is it now? Is it still home? It's not Fort Benning now. What is it now?
Speaker 2:Oh, did they change name of Ben? I wasn't even tracking that. Yeah, I think it's Fort.
Speaker 1:Moore, I think it's Fort Benning, for how more I think?
Speaker 2:I thought that was the one in Texas because they had that like the history behind the air cab there and everything.
Speaker 1:What I couldn't be wrong. Let's look this up now. Let's look this up. Yeah, check it out. So yeah, so you go to Fort, what was formerly known as Fort Benning.
Speaker 2:The artist formerly known as Benning. Yeah, which was a fantastic time. I mean like so, when I was there in basic training, it was just. It was funny because I went into it with that mindset of like, look, this is, this is basic training. Okay, this is the where it all starts, this is the foundation. You know, pay attention and everything, but you're in with a bunch of these 17 and 18 year olds. There was a few older guys, but it was almost like our. We were Charlie 119 and it was almost like they gave us a ton of people. There were X-ray program Okay, like a ton, and they had this mission to just beat the snot out of us. Like we started with like all the all the different companies there. Like they had this running list of of how many people they could cut. Like it was like a game to the drill sergeants and we started out with like 70, some odd people. I think our graduating class was 44, which is weird, for I mean an army basic training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, you think well, you know, I keep thinking about your timeline too is like, like you said, the wars, and I think that the bigger the the headchats are probably thinking okay, we don't need as many infantry, we probably need different types of branches, we don't need as many 18 X-rays. So we have this whole cadre of 18 X-rays. Let's kind of weed it down. You almost wonder what's going on there.
Speaker 2:I never thought about it like that. You know it's possible. They know what they're doing. There's that program up running behind the scenes, like the HR and the big heads over there they know what's up and thanks to Wikipedia, it is now a Fortmore there.
Speaker 1:Used to be like a Fortmore back in the day for a different Wow, but yeah, that's. Fortmore.
Speaker 2:Crazy. Well, you know what? Hey, hell of a hell of a soldier as well. Right, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you got hurt During basic training. Is that what happened, or did you get hurt in airborne school?
Speaker 2:So I actually got hurt in the SOPSI. It was probably something just compounded along the way. So airborne school, I mean wasn't really a big deal, you know. You just it's kind of how to. It's the school of falling. You know, every all-way or war school it's. Hey, you know, as long as you can run and fall out of a plane you'll be okay.
Speaker 2:But SOPSI, so the Special operations, preparation and conditioning, I always thought it was phenomenal program. It always gets. You know, they kind of look down on it and some of the Greenbrae cadre and stuff that were, and maybe that was just part of the game, you know, but they were just phenomenal. There was one guy, a summer first-class holst, and he was just intense. You know, I mean they were all intense, but he was just that like the one, and and come to find out as more towards the end of us being there is that he was one of the guys from Black Hawk Down, like I think he was the second guy fast roping out of the chopper. He was in the same chopper that that guy fell out of and you know, I mean he was through the entire thing up until, like he ran the mile with everybody out of there and Just the stories he had and the intensity.
Speaker 2:But that being in that atmosphere and having Somebody like that as a mentor, I never understood why the army and why the 82nd and stuff look down on these x-rays coming out of these programs because it's like you're getting a better equipped soldier, quite honestly, and you're getting somebody who's had a little bit more than everybody else, even if he didn't make the full program. I mean you have to look at the drop rates and stuff in selection and then throughout the Q-Course I mean that's a it's. It has a high high attrition rate.
Speaker 1:Well, there's always been this thing between conventional airborne forces and special operations forces, always. You know that's even back like cuz me. You know, when I first went to any army was in 90s. You know I didn't go to the, I didn't go to the war until 5.06. So it was like different. You know, you're like the, the BTU's and stuff, and you have the conventional forces who never really understood the Capabilities of soft forces. And you know, in the 90s and before that, you know I'm preaching to the choir but most of the, the alpha teams were the A teams were more Foreign internal defense than they were direct action.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was actually one of the biggest things and biggest discussions between myself and my platoon sergeant all the time was the fact of like, like, we literally did an asset mission out there. We were doing FID hand-in-hand with the police we were with living right outside of one of the villages, you know, in a 28 man Combat outpost like that. We were doing what teams would do on that end and they were in and out of our ao All the time. Matter of fact, the, the first manuscript came back from the DoD, you know, with a bunch of black lines and stuff and like oh, come on, like, this stuff is I, but you know I wanted that stamp on.
Speaker 1:It didn't really do, you know I'm glad you brought up the, the soft Cape, the soft and Afghanistan, the stuff too, is because One thing about your book that really I take away is you're writing it from a grunt perspective. You always get the, the special forces there's, I mean, how many Greenbray Navy, seal, the?
Speaker 1:markets are out there, it's actually to get that ground level Look and to get the view from you know the grunt, yeah, you know. And to go back to my favorite movie, one of my favorite movies, platoon. It's like having that, that look at the grunt level, and I think that's why that movie and that's why the grunt perspective resonates so much. That's the same thing with like band of brothers and all these other shows. Look, when you're looking at the grunt. That is what resonates and that is really.
Speaker 2:I mean just, and that's because it's so relatable, you know, I mean it's you are, you're not at these high levels it's. It's so strange, like this is kind of a blue ocean in here and it's because you get the doD approved books, or the books about a conventional battle and stuff, but they're all written by someone who really wasn't there, like it's a general. They weren't the ones that are running, you know, 800 meters into a Conflict. You know where suicide bombers just lit themselves up I'm talking about the 1508 incident in the book. They aren't the ones doing that sort of thing. So to get that view.
Speaker 2:But then you have the soft guys that put out their books, you know. So a lot of the conventional guys seem marginalized for one, and they're, they won't even bring their story forward. But what a lot of people don't realize is these the books, a lot of the books that come over from the soft side. The doD doesn't sign off on them, so they're really military fiction. So I mean they and it's happened before.
Speaker 2:You know there's stuff in there where it's kind of embellished, you know. So I mean really I'm like you got two ends here and I'm like, alright, where can we go in the middle here, tell the true story? Because the stuff that happened out there like there's people that I know that went on Further to go in the movie industry and stuff and they they've literate they're like there's no way, like anybody's ever gonna believe that this was a year that happened out there. It was just so kinetic and chaotic. But here we are, you know, and I Think it was, and that's one of the reasons why to that it got boiled down into a book that was platoon level. There's just no way that I could have gotten everything in there that happened throughout the whole company's time there.
Speaker 1:I like. The other platoon level aspect of it too is like you know. So I was enlisted in the 90s and then commissioned later on, and when you commission and you're lieutenant, you want to, you want to ingest as much nonfiction as possible. You want to find out what it's like to be at that ground level now, what it's like to be like. You know Delta dev group, some other, you know tip of the spear type thing, or what happens at the general or flag officer level, because that is what a lot of the books were like back then.
Speaker 1:There wasn't social media. When I joined, you know, there wasn't this, there wasn't that. And you, but still you don't want that three minute clip on YouTube of what it's like to be in the shit with the grunts. So you want to have something where you could read it and go okay, these are the dynamics in a platoon. That's one thing I like about. Like when you're talking about barracks, when you're talking about this, when you're talking about that, when you're talking about the suck, because sometimes when you get in these leadership positions, you forget what it's like to be a human, and I hate to say like that, but you're, you're still, you're right, you're so stuck at this, like, okay, I cannot show emotions, I cannot sympathize with my troops, blah, blah, blah. And I wasn't like that. Was I really like that? But You're gonna get a lot of people who, like they forget that they're out there.
Speaker 2:Yep, they're out there and it even I mean it even happened with some of this to where, you know, you could see it in the way that they would either dehumanize the enemy, you know, or even sometimes the, the lower enlisted, like when we would get in. So we started getting in replacements and guys just didn't want to get to know them. You know, they didn't want to put that, that human face to it and stuff, and some of them got treated like complete garbage, you know, because of that. But and that's sort of like an in-between too is it's not complete garbage but it's Brunt, kurt, it's like that war time, like it's got to be straight into the point and if you don't listen, mm-hmm. You know, right, right now, if you're not snapping to like, it doesn't mean much. But if you're in contact and you have that hesitation, you know, and you're not snapping to like, so they're trying to fix that. So I mean I understand that into and not all of it is.
Speaker 1:I know it's no excuse for the toxicity on on some of that and because we've all had you know that, transition though it's like, and that these are the kind of lessons you bring with you when you get out. Is that making a decision? You know, and you come from the law enforcement world, a protective world or anything else is like. One thing you learn in the military is whether or not you can make a decision and the importance of making a snap, right now decision, regardless if it's gonna be perfect or not. One of the things is when people hesitate and they try to think everything through for that perfect solution. It never comes, because by the time a perfect solution comes, the actions already been over with. And Talking about life and death, loss of limb, it's got to happen now. You got to make a decision.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, no, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. That's, um, I've, more times than not either, hesitation in, like when it's actually when, uh, like kinetic type instances happening. I'm thinking of specifically there's a suicide bomber incident, to where, in this kid's head, you know, this guy's approaching and he's telling him to stop. That's kind of looking weird and he knows something's wrong. He knows it like inside of him and inside of you. You're built in with a radar, you got to learn to listen to it and he knows something's wrong and, if you know, he's hesitating to the second yell, to where the Afghan that's next to him decides to take action and racks and that's when the guy puts his hands on. But the thing is, his initiators for these pressure plates on his knees and he goes to his knees and, oh shit, yeah, tricky they were using.
Speaker 2:They started using some crazy techniques. As far as that, their um, the anti-personal minds that they would use. It Was a sim, like a simple setup. This is how you know that they were a decent team, like a bomb team, because it was a simple setup, but it was the way that they were replacing them, masters at it, like they would literally Do techniques that, like hunters used to like canal deer and stuff in a place by using patterns of light and stuff, so you could start to see it in the in the pomegranate orchards that they were actually Funneling you somewhere, or like leading your eye Mm-hmm, you know into there. And it took a lot for you to start realizing and picking up on these flags and signs. Yeah, just chill trick.
Speaker 1:So you go, you go, think about this way you go to war for a year, 15 months. You go back back. You know, go here and there, maybe two, three, four, five, six is, let's say, eight wars. But now these, these bomb makers, are living this life, that's certainly life, you know they've grown into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they may had a like a Decade or two for between us and the Russians or whatever, but that's their life, man. Their life has always been war and we know bond making is a profitable business and it's not always about gihad, it's always about doing, you know, the best thing that you want to do and they become the best. They're getting a PhD in bomb making and they passed on on information to you know, uncle Julio or whoever else is over there, and it's just generational and it's just that is their job. It's like when you send people to prison. You know Reforming is great, but a lot of times you're getting a master's in criminality, you're getting a doctor and criminal, depending on what institution you go into. Same thing with bomb making, oh.
Speaker 1:Yeah but the other thing too is looking at this way you go over there for a year as a combat troop and Look at the lessons you learned, look how that molded the rest of your life. And to pen and paper now yeah, I should say keyboard, I mean A book and pen and paper now. But now, now you're, now you're behind the keyboard, it's changed everything.
Speaker 2:It kind of crosses with stuff though, like when you're putting together, like I mean in my Everyday business with marketing, or if I'm creating an outline and stuff. I don't do it with a computer, it's too distracting. Hey, literally that we're just we're. We live in an age of information, but at the same time our creativity is hampered by it's almost like over information.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I'm glad you said that, because they're starting to make these things. Well, actually I shouldn't say they're starting to make these things. They're essentially recreating the typewriter. They're making like these little wordpress, a wordpress type things where you could just type I've seen those and it's not connected to anything I know exactly what you're talking about yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I, whenever I map out anything, I do a mind map and I use piece of paper and I put my target in the middle and then I'm, I map it all out. You know, there's a lot of things you can't do on a computer. That are because, essentially, writing is creative. You have to have some. I mean, yeah, you could write professional documents and stuff, but when you're putting out fiction, even nonfiction, people want to read it. And if you're writing it so dry that it seems like a manual, then you're probably better off in a different type of medium. Yeah right, so let's get into your your post war. You go to the reserves? Did you go to reserves guard?
Speaker 2:So I went over to the reserve side actually when I left active and the whole reason I left active was actually I I had a packet to go across the street to go work with the unit guys and that was in to go try out over there. And then the you know who's not my wife was like hey, I'm pregnant, and I kind of I weighed the two and I was like, look these guys, there's only one, one path that you can take. You can't, you can't blend this, not, not with that level. And I chose the, the choice of family. So that's, that's the route I went and I ended up in the 450th civil affairs group right outside of Washington. And really the funniest part with that, they use me a lot, they use me heavily as far as the tactical trainer and I would run the ranges. You know, first start with grab, like grabbed me up, and was like, hey, you're my boy.
Speaker 2:You're my boy blue, real but with everything else, like they were airborne as well. But I got word back from the VA like six months after I was out of active and they're like hey, you're, you're deadline, you have all these, you know, you got hip dysplasia and you got all these other like issues and I'm like what, what they're like yeah, we have no idea you should have been medically retired, like oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I was like, well, can we go back and do that like Exactly, um, and the reserves kept me for another two and a half years like unpaid as I'm you know. I'm like, hey, can you guys just release me, like kidding me right now. And they Kept me around like it was all just their command. So that was a little jaded about that little stint.
Speaker 1:I have that dream, all you know. I have these dreams. They pop up every few months. It's weird, I get recalled and I guess into a car I guess I guess into.
Speaker 1:Well, that's how I got. I got recalled from the IRR when I went to war. But now when I get recalled, I'm back and they make me an E4 because I resigned my commission. So I'm no more longer captain pickle, so I'm an E4 and I'm always attached to some random guard unit and they won't let me go and they're gonna send me to some war unit and I'm like, oh my gosh, you're kidding me. And I'm always going back to like a Benning or somewhere else and I'm like I'm a specialist. I'm like I'm fucking 50 years old. Hey, so like when?
Speaker 1:I got out. When I got out, I I remember getting hold of my branch manager. I think it was like you know, I hate dating myself, but this was oh six. I get a hold of them. I'm like, hey, how do I resign my commission? They're like well, facts this form into us. I fax a form into them. Literally like a week later I had an honorable discharge in a mail. It was like boom, was that quick. It was crazy.
Speaker 2:I wish I could see, I think part of it was to is I was a little like, after all this stuff and after all this is coming out like my old first sergeant that's in the book. He retired as a CSM, you know, and he's like, why the hell didn't you call me man? Like I could have made some calls for you and you just don't know.
Speaker 1:And that's where. And that's one thing we needed, we need to transition into now too, is networking. Yes, all of this stuff in our community now is networking. Like you're on your reasoning around the shows because my buddy, pete, says, hey, you know you should interview. Well, I'm like okay, cool, but you have to use your market, you have to be a marketing and this is tough and I know you're in this business. That's one of the reasons I really want to talk to you today. I mean, I love your war story, I love your book and everything, but I really wanted to. About marketing, it is impossible. Why shouldn't say it's impossible?
Speaker 2:Nothing's impossible.
Speaker 1:No, the thing is like it's so hard to sell yourself. I Could sell crap all day long. I don't really like selling things, but selling yourself is tough and a lot of that has to be selling to the right market and knowing your market and networking. So how did you get into marketing?
Speaker 2:So that was actually. That was a risk. That was a pivot. In response to COVID I, I there's. There's a little bit more behind it, but I Was wanting to go back and finish up business school. I had done a little bit in college. I kind of felt like the discipline that the military kind of gave me behind there was a Good segue to within business.
Speaker 2:I grew up my dad was. He owned a business, you know, I knew, I Knew what it entailed and I knew the work that I put in and I'm like, hey, you know what my background and stuff, and I did it in school too. You know I mean my background, I'll do the work. I might not even be the smartest guy in the room, but I will outwork, and I told my teams this in college too. I was like I will outwork every single one of you guys and it's the amount of you know, drive that you put behind it if you want something to succeed. But yeah, you're absolutely right, you have to hit the right people and find in those key points and I think that that's part of that adaptation portion, like this particular thing.
Speaker 2:You know, it's been frustrating, it's been a development the whole way, but from the very start I noticed that a lot of authors and stuff out there and a lot of people they go off of their personal Pages and I personally believe that that's one of the biggest mistakes they can make, because people are fallible for one and for two. Like if you create a movement and you make it about, like you're amplifying other people's Stuff like this book that I'm on the title but, honest to God, like every single one of those guys should be on there as well and I tried to include every single one of them from that between in that book as well. That was one of the things that they had kind of felt. There was that other book that came out. There was another book as a Bravo company by Ben Castling that covers Some of that same conflict area but the scope of it. He was trying to accomplish something within the veteran space In talking with people about veteran suicide through a particular story that mainly followed one of my old squad leaders, certain Alan Thomas, and, and a lot of the guys just felt like they weren't included and that it wasn't the full story and it needed to all be out there.
Speaker 2:And even though I love the book and stuff, I was like you know, you're right and that's how this thing came to be. But they all pitched in everything you see on social and everything that's them. I had, I Think five, eight pictures, you know, and the publisher was like hey, we want to put a picture, answer in here, we need 30. Can you, can you deliver? And I was like yep, didn't even question, I was like yep. And that's when I got frantic after they said yes, and I'm like hey, guys, like what do we got?
Speaker 1:You know, marketing is the other thing I wanted to talk about with marketing to is being original or being authentic to yourself, like you and I are both talking about, like the bro vets, the vet influencers, the influencers out there, and it's easy to you know, try to be something you're not to kind of embellish and stuff. How do you gain a following or gain traction, being authentic in the marketing space?
Speaker 2:You know it takes time. It takes time and it takes you fostering it and that's why I started this so early. You know, the publisher was like they question it there. I started the social media campaign back in February and they're like you know, what are you doing? Like nobody ever starts pumping a book. People are gonna lose interest. I'm like, no, I'm fostering, you know, and I'm I'm growing this thing, you know, and in the background, the whole time, you know you have those doubts from them and the other people and it gets real quiet, gets real quiet and then you know the ones that kind of looked at you weird or laugh to you. Then they start to and they start to get. You know they're, they're the ones that get quiet and then they start to pay. You know they're like oh Well, this actually might do something.
Speaker 1:You know and then when you start, getting it.
Speaker 2:Come back around, Then you know you're getting that traction, but but really it is like I mean there is a, there's a road and you can't give up on it. Um, cause I'll tell you right now that, uh, there's there's times where I was like there's no way, there's no way this thing's going to start pulling or pulling traction. And that's where you just have to be like you know what, dude, you had a plan and you stick with the plan and you continue to drive on, and it's the exact same stuff that we did in the valley.
Speaker 1:I like it, man, you will. You have to keep, stick with the plan. And that's a lot of times when, when you get to the social media and marketing, you kind of forget the big picture and you're trying to get like that, a thousand likes, or the, the whatever and this.
Speaker 2:And that I found the more authentic you are, the more people are going to engage with you, mm hmm, one of the guys um, that was there we were talking the other day, actually a John Culp, and he likened it to, uh, taking a dowel rod Okay, so, like a perfect, perfectly aligned rod, and you put it up next to a wall that's crooked, you know, mm, hmm, and that's that's what it is, the measuring. And people notice it and they can see it when you put it up next to the fake and the BS.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, the last, you know, the last thing we need to talk about today is racing.
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 1:The ridge. You know, I've been out to the ridge. My buddy's got his little racing team out there 30 after action racing, so I've been out there a bunch of times. Man, I love, love racing out there. Yeah, okay, where's? Where's the ridge? Isn't the ridge up in Washington, outside of Seattle?
Speaker 2:Hmm, I'm not. I haven't the West coast, I'm not so familiar.
Speaker 1:I was on the like the yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the Northeast region and yeah, yeah, that's the.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, lime Rock Park was really, I mean, so familiar. I was only what, about half an hour from there and I mean that was that was every weekend, you know, and we would run what BMWs and ITS. And then, ultimately, when I left there, I ended up doing rally. So I started off with a little two wheel drive Ford Escort.
Speaker 1:Oh, awesome man, yeah, reggie Motorsports Park.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm chillin' in Washington.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man Well, with his it's more like endurance. So it's like eight hours on, eight hours on Saturday, or seven hours Saturday. Eight, seven hours. It's no joke, it's fine man, it is. I love it, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, and that fostering, like that's part of the whole racing for heroes, is like you have to. It's the same thing that we did. It's like that common goal and you're taking guys and you're putting it together as a team and you're working together in these more stressful environments as a team to create that goal. And that is, you know, between doing something with a rally for the troops, you know, in getting guys into the cars and getting them involved in rally racing, which is out in the woods, you know, which is where we love to be. Yeah, oh, that is fun. Oh, no, it's a blast, it's a. I come out sometime. Yeah, well, definitely We'll catch you out in.
Speaker 2:Washington with the guys. And that's actually. The paddocks are at Virginia International, so VIR.
Speaker 1:Right on a drive.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:I have cheap poor travel.
Speaker 2:Look them up Racing for heroes. They do stuff all the time. I know, right around Thanksgiving actually I do holiday they lapse, so they do that. They put some people on the track and then they also have some stuff where they do some rally things, or at least they have in the past. I'm not sure what they're doing this year Been busy.
Speaker 1:Well, well, I appreciate you coming on, man, and I definitely want to have you back on. You know we do. I need to start doing more round tables. I need to bring like different perspectives from different people, how we could, like you know, not really market, but how do we sell? I guess that is marketing, but how do we sell?
Speaker 2:Well, it's a little bit. I mean you have sales, but then you have marketing. Marketing is the mass message where sales like I mean if you're selling it to a particular, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to sell being authentic.
Speaker 1:I'm so tired of people who are just selling an ideal. Like you know, look at me, I'm a former XYZ and I'm the best thing in since sliced bread. You need to buy this product because of this. I don't want to see that. I want to see authentic people now. I want to listen to stories, I want to hear from people. I want to learn from people who have different perspectives, and that's like one of the things I like about your book. As I was going through it, I'm like I didn't read the whole thing yet, but I'm going to getting a different perspectives and then getting the different perspectives of you, like you know, going through your process and then talking to you now and seeing how you've changed from, like you know, 26 year old you to 40 plus year old you. Yeah, I appreciate coming out. Man, Enjoy this.
Speaker 2:Oh it's been great, thank you. Thank you for having me on. It's been fantastic. We definitely have to get back out there as well. As you know, I mean you're you're invited to the museum event, by the way, on Veterans Day. I'm sure you know. I know that's last minute, but but you know, next time we're down at the track I'll let you know. Definitely, yeah.