#404 | Todd Fox | Tour Protection | Behind The Scenes!

Todd Fox, Tour Protection, stopped by The Protectors® to talk about his new book PROTECTIVE PERSPECTIVE.  Todd is a veteran U.S. Marine, has a solid background in law enforcement, and has been on the tour scene for years.  We talk about how he got into the security field, working with Madonna, and going on to be behind the scenes for major bands.  

About the book:  PROTECTIVE PERSPECTIVE: A Peek Behind the Curtain. This book is a simple, yet complex, compilation of photos and concepts related to protective operations performed while on a world music tour in 2022. It shares rare behind the scenes images coupled with underpinning protective ideas.  It offers readers an ALL ACCESS visual experience in the realm of protectors and high-profile celebrities while traveling across the globe. Protective Perspective provides a unique vantage into the domain of music touring while simultaneously offering acute insight to those in the business of art and professional protection. It offers value to anyone with an interest in music, travel, photography, protection, military operations, and/or a desire to understand that which unfolds behind the curtain.  

Available NOW at tourprotection.com 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:16

You gotta look inside the pictures. That's what I'm telling you, Todd. Well, that's what you're telling me. 'cause I did, that's , I'm telling, I looked inside the pictures

Speaker 2: 0:24

Layers. It's, it's got layers to it. Layers

Speaker 1: 0:27

Protective perspective. It's a book. It's, it's not just a picture book. That's what we're trying to say. It's a book by Todd Fox. It's out now. You gotta pick it up. We're gonna get into it. But the thing is, you open it up and it's about the whole protective operations going behind a major tour. We're talking a major tour. I've seen part of it. I'm pretty sure it's the same one I saw . Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . But the deal is, there is so much in these pictures, and now that you said look in the layers, I'm like, oh , okay. I gotta take a look at this now. 'cause there's a lot that goes in Torah protection. Absolutely. Todd, welcome to the show, brother. Welcome to the protectors, the new trademark registered trademarked protectors.

Speaker 2: 1:06

I love it. Congratulations, man. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:08

Thanks brother. I don't know how many episodes I'm gonna say this in, but I'm really excited about it. Maybe another three or four people

Speaker 2: 1:13

Keep saying it.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Todd, you've been on a show before and you've also written books before, very technical books. But now we're into the, Hey, you know what? You have an audience out there who's visual, so let's show them what goes into this planning process. And we're talking major venues here, so let's just jump right into it. You know, you get notification, you're like, Hey, you know what, we're gonna hire you out. You're gonna be going on tour. For how many, how long do you go on tours for

Speaker 2: 1:42

Three to six months.

Speaker 1: 1:43

Three to six months. That's a hell of a lot of planning process. Yeah. When you get notification, you get a contract. How is it ? You know what? I don't even know what it is . What, is it a contract notification? Do they solicit? Or is it just,

Speaker 2: 1:54

Yeah, so it depends on what your relationship is like with the artist directly or with the management group or an agent. So different entities hire us, and it depends on the relationship. It depends on their need and also kind of what they're after, what exists in that realm. So for us, we tend to get , um, artists or clients that are more interested in the cerebral component as opposed to the security by the pound. 'cause we don't have a lot of, you know, six foot , eight, 300 pound guys. We got a lot , a lot of guys that plan, coordinate come from military law enforcement, special operations background. Um, so normally we get contacted usually two to three months before, and in some cases even a year before. So it , it just depends on who it is and what they're after. And , and the threat profile of that client, or the awareness of, of the client.

Speaker 1: 2:42

Now, is this kind of like one of those things where like, okay, we're gonna hire Todd out and Todd brings people with him ? Or does sometimes these tour companies have like their own like liaison?

Speaker 2: 2:52

No, typically when they hire us, it's our team. Occasionally they'll have a secondary team that maybe has some type of , um, relationship with somebody else in the camp and, and they just don't wanna let 'em go. So they're there for the ride. But typically when, when we get hired, it's, it's our show and, and we get to, to manage things and navigate it in the way that, that we best see fit. Assuming it's approved by the artist.

Speaker 1: 3:13

Now you're coming from marine background, you have that planning process. Anybody in the military knows something about planning and the operational aspects of it. How did you get into this? Let's take a , let's go in a way back machine and how did you get into the tor you know, the tour protection business ,

Speaker 2: 3:28

Um , I was, I was working , um, had a really weird job in the Marine Corps where we call it B Bill , which is secondary to your primary job. And , um, that job was a motion picture liaison. So I basically went north of, of Camp Pendleton to LA and uh, I was in an office where we'd get scripts from DOD to approve and look at and say, oh yeah, the jargon's right ? It's good. It portrays the Marine Corps in a positive way. And then when they go to production, they get supportive. DOD and DOD says, Hey, let them on base, let them train, you know, this op and connect them with the commander, and we're gonna do this op anyway, so it doesn't take anything for them to train it. Um, or, or film it rather. Uh , so I was doing that and, you know, go on set. And basically you're a technical advisor, so you teach 'em how to walk and talk and like, no, we wouldn't say, you know, latrine , we say head in the Marine Corps. We , you know, we wouldn't say , uh, you know, lunchroom. We would say Chow hall , uh, and then you're gonna adjust their ribbons and metals and how they walk and talk and all that stuff. And then you're on set for, for continuity purposes. And, and as I'm sure you know , uh, reality doesn't always matter. So you can advise them on, Hey, this is how we do it. And they say, eh , it's not so sexy. We don't wanna do it that way. And they change it. So I was doing that, and while I was doing that, I was fighting , um, in what was called no hold sparred at the time. It was pre MMA . Um, and , uh, a a guy came into the gym at Hicks and Gracie's who wanted to do some training and wanted to do , uh, some MMA training and Hickson wasn't available to him. And I was the only guy at the time that was an MMA guy. And , uh, he turned out, he started dating Madonna and he had asked me to come over one day and , uh, in , in my service, alphas coming out of the office, went over to Beverly Hills, and , uh, was introduced to Madonna.

Speaker 1: 5:17

Well , that's a good start. Yeah. We're talking, like, we're talking

Speaker 2: 5:21

On the resume.

Speaker 1: 5:22

We're talking mid midlife Madonna too, like , you know , <laugh> .

Speaker 2: 5:26

Yes.

Speaker 1: 5:27

Midlife Madonna , nothing . I mean , she's kind of , you know, she's still Madonna,

Speaker 2: 5:31

Eh , I don't know . <laugh>,

Speaker 1: 5:33

<laugh> . That's a whole nother story, brother. You know, man. Um, you've had a hell of a career so far with this, with the tour security. So you get outta the Marines and you're like, Hey, let's do this, are you ?

Speaker 2: 5:45

No , I'm still, I'm still in the Marine Corps. And um, so I was next to Mexico. It was a couple hours away from Mexico, and I'm a Spanish speaker. So I was getting these guys, the production guys , uh, directors , uh, entertainment guys who were like, Hey, we're going down here for a vacation. You speak it, you're a fighter. Uh, we're gonna bring you with us, a security or a translator or an assistant. And so I would take time and, and , uh, go there on leave and, and work protection jobs. Uh , they hired me for all the wrong reasons because there's no relationship between fighting and protection, but they didn't know that. And so I had already been doing it. And then by the time I met Guy ,

Speaker 1: 6:19

Let's, let's talk about that right there. I mean, there is, I mean, you have to know some sort of physical techniques well , but it's not like the key to the game, you know?

Speaker 2: 6:29

Uh , so the physical techniques that you should know and should be able to implement under stress , uh, very well. Those things are for when everything else fails. So the whole idea is to know where you're going, know about that area, to build a network within that area, to have these layers that will detect something as it starts to unfold, and then to kind of protect your bubble and not let people in it or near it, or at least have some level of control to utilize the intelligence that you built into the network. Uh, so by the time things start to go wrong, you still are not in the fighting phase at that point. You are evacuating, you're leaving, you're avoiding the fight , um, you're getting offline. The the idea with fighting somebody is that everything else has failed. And that's the last option. And it's a liability from a physical perspective because you can be killed or your client can be killed. But , uh, in other aspects like civil liability, it's, it's a major problem because if you look at the, the net worth of most of these people, it's considerable. And if I do something and I'm an average Joe, I don't have anything. They're not gonna come after me. They're gonna come after my client. So fighting in it , in and of itself is a liability, and it's an asset when you've kind of , uh, exhausted all of the other measures and the structure that you've built based on your training and experience and you know, the things that are available to you in a given market.

Speaker 1: 7:54

And that brings us back to the book. You know, when you take a look at your book though, I mean, that's really what it is. You're not, when you, when you thumb through your book and you're reading about what goes on behind the scenes, and that's what I really want people to understand, this is behind the scenes of like a major tour. And it's for the music enthusiasts out there. And for anybody else, you might be like, oh , that'd be kind of a cool book to look at you. So you don't just have to be in a security field, but you're not gonna see like armed guys. You're not gonna see like this heavy handed like, you know, six foot , 10, 300 pound guy. You're gonna see what really goes in behind the scenes, those layers of security. And that's kind of why I wanted to hit off on, like, a lot of people when they think of security, they think of heavy handedness, they think of the Hell's Angels protecting the Rolling Stones. Uh , they think about that kind of stuff. So, I mean, it's like, yeah, that's why I kind of really dig this book, man.

Speaker 2: 8:47

I don't know if people are old enough to remember what you referenced.

Speaker 1: 8:50

I know, I know.

Speaker 2: 8:52

If , if they do, they'll also remember the liability that was created from that and, and , uh, that was catastrophic.

Speaker 1: 8:59

Yeah. If anybody just Google Hell's Angels Rolling Stones and you're gonna be like, whoa. mm-Hmm , <affirmative> . Okay, brother, let's talk about this. The , so we get into the planning process, you know, we , we, we fast forward to where you first, what was your first major tour like where you're the man?

Speaker 2: 9:16

Uh, well, I, I had a weird setup like starting with Madonna because Guy put me in so that he had somebody to train with, right? So I wasn't really put in to do the work, and I was the only non Brit that was on the tour. And so there was this animosity because this young American Marines coming in and, you know , uh, they didn't wanna help him . And , uh, they also, none of them were real fighters. And so what ended up happening is they're seeing me train guy . And so there's this wall between us. And so I had to learn everything literally on my own. And so the next few tours that I went to, I was able to take bits and pieces of what I saw that was done right, and what I saw that was done wrong. And I was able to write up what we call a security advance , uh, a document that outlines what we want done and how we want it done , uh, at the venue. Everything from , uh, law enforcement and medics to how they open doors to how they do searches, to what they sell to the times and locations that security staff's gonna go to, the times or places of , uh, uh, placement for barrier , um, all these little bits and pieces. And then, you know, any critical incident planning, stuff like that. So , um, I had a really short fuse and , uh, thankfully thankful for having those guys who were , who were not very helpful, who intentionally would give disinformation because it forced me to grow, it forced me to understand it in a way that I never would've understood it if I didn't deal with that kind of , uh, adversity and animosity.

Speaker 1: 10:41

Holy crap. You had me really thinking now. 'cause you a lot of people think, okay, when you get to the venue, you know, you're gonna have just, you just have to deal with the band. But then you have the roadies, but then you have the people selling things, and then you have the outside. I mean, these layers are layers upon layers upon layers. And I saw that when I went to see you in , um, with your tour and having these different people and these different, just so many different layers from the locals. The local venue has security, but then you have the local police departments, and then you have, and depending on your venue, like let's say you're in a DC where you're gonna have some sort of federal liaison. I mean, there is a metric ton of layers into this.

Speaker 2: 11:22

You're talking about, like for example, in DC there are other layers as well, because so many people have jurisdiction there, and so many dignitaries are coming out to that event. So you have to do all the deconfliction with all the armed elements that are in there so you don't mistake them for somebody else. One and two, even even things like communications are changed because they have , um, communications gear and assets inside that venue in particular , uh, that they won't tell you about. They won't disclose it, but it starts to affect frequency. It starts to affect communication. It affects the wireless mics for the artist . It affects , you know, secondary and tertiary , uh, comms measures for the security team. So it , it creates all kinds of issues.

Speaker 1: 12:02

Wow, brother. So we know we had Madonna really great lessons , uh, learned for you. What was your first major event that you were the man?

Speaker 2: 12:14

Uh, it's hard, it's hard to say because it depends on, on how you see it. Um, and what I mean is typically in, in touring , uh, positions are broken up, right? So they're broken up into personal security, which is close protection of the artist. And then venue security, which is like advanced site survey who deal with, you know, passes and structure and the liaison to the venue itself and what the protocols are for the show. So it , it depends. I very quickly , um, I ended up in the head of personal security role and then very shortly after , um, in , in venue. And then now for the most part, anywhere that I'm going when I have a team, it's, it's more of an oversight, like a director of security and you're controlling those, those elements. So you might have a guy that's jumping ahead in every city who's your advanced guy. You might have a venue guy who controls all the venue stuff and then two or three guys with the artists . So , uh, unfortunately, I , and also fortunately, you know, that happened for me very quickly right after Madonna jumped in and, and you know, I was dealing with , um, perfect circle and tool and, and , uh, Morrissey and Motley Crue , and , uh, you name it, it's a long, long list of people. Um, and, and it was like, it's you, you figure it out, go. So

Speaker 1: 13:24

It's such a almost like secret service type mentality. You know, when you think about like you're protecting a dignitary even , uh, diplomatic security service and all that, where you have an advanced team, you have to make the liaisons and you have to be a people person. So when you're talking about like, you know, you can be Johnny and n John a spot former, whatever, but the reality is you really have to be a people person and a salesman. 'cause you're selling it, you gotta sell it, you gotta be able to talk to someone. You gotta be like, Hey, this is the deal. And it's like that verbal judo, man, you gotta be a black belt, like fifth degree black belt in this verbal judo or nowadays the , the verbal jujitsu. I think ,

Speaker 2: 14:04

I think anytime you think about it , um, you know, in in , in our case, like you reference , um, secret service or diplomatic security service who are probably, you know, the leaders in the field at least , uh, seemingly , um, and those guys have these massive networks , um, not just stateside, but oconus and, you know, we don't have that. We have a handful of guys doing their thing with no legal authority to do the thing we're doing. Um, and even within licensing, that's a challenge. So I have to use secondary, tertiary parties to carry out an act. Let's say I'm overseas and I can't carry a firearm like, oh, you're HR two a team . Well, that doesn't mean anything. Um, so now I've got this third party carrying it out, and now if that guy isn't able to talk to people, isn't able to communicate with people, I have a problem. So every person on that team needs to have the skills that you're mentioning because when you're going somewhere and it's a foreign language and it's , it's a high intensity situation and there's a lot of emotion involved, let's say Brazil or any, anywhere in Latin America , um, you better have those local cultural skills, the people skills, how to deal with people, how to calm situations down, you know, how to convey information, how to build a network and rapport. And that's where , um, and I think I'm put , I know I put this in the book, that's where these kind of little things, right? Uh , which we may use as bonafides in in one location. Uh ,

Speaker 1: 15:23

And for the listening audience out there , uh, Todd was just showing a couple like challenge coins. Yeah, pins. These are things that, like cops worldwide, if you throw 'em a challenge coin, like, oh wow, this is like the best thing. Um, I started doing these , um, their poker chips. So I use poker chips all the time and I put the protectors logos on 'em . 'cause you know, we're , uh, we're looking for sponsors all the time out there for the Protectors podcast. But yeah, that's the thing is like, they're , they're very cheap, but they go a long way.

Speaker 2: 15:53

They're huge. And, and the thing is, you don't know the value until you're overseas and you can't get done. And you present a little thing, you talk a certain way, and then they open these doors that officially can't open. And, and I'll tell you, I'll give you an example. You know, I was dealing with somebody , um, law enforcement in a foreign country, and I'm asking for some stuff and, you know, they can't do anything. And this guy is making the equivalent of $6 an hour, right? Because law enforcement oversees is very different than the US and all he wants at the end of the day is a picture with the artist. And , uh, a t-shirt. That's literally what this guy wanted. And he was holding us up outside of, it's called La Caa Ada , uh, the , the Pink House in, in Buenos Aires in Argentina, which is the equivalent of the White House. And he was holding us up after a meeting with the literal president of the country, maybe 200 meters from this, this place. And , uh, all he wanted was that he wanted a picture of the artist and he wanted some type of swag. So in , instead of stand there and argue with him for an hour, get it done and move on. And, and it comes down to those little things, but you have to know that you have to be aware of what they're after.

Speaker 1: 16:59

I almost wanna finish the rest of this interview in Spanish <laugh>. So I meant that the pink . I love it, man. Um, why, you know, you wrote books before you wrote this one. Now what is your audience? I mean, I really think this book is great for not just the people in a protective industry, but also the people in it that love the music industry and behind the scenes. 'cause I dunno about you, man, but you and , uh, my buddy John from Silver Spear have gotten me like behind the scenes and seeing some things, and I love it, man. I love that feeling.

Speaker 2: 17:34

Yeah. Um, to your question , uh, I I think you're on point. This book is different than the others. And the reason that it's different is because it's very visual. And, and what we've found through studies over and over and over again, and this is documented in in multiple peer-reviewed studies, is that people will retain visual information past three days at a rate of 65%. So it beats auditory, right? It beats kinesthetic. It's, it's the way, it's the way people take information and process it. And your eyes are a direct link, obviously, to your brain. So when I put these pictures in , uh, I think it opened the door , um, for people that are interested in travel, people that are interested in photography, people that are interested in the music business as, as a fan, people that are interested in getting in the music business management side of things. Um, security guys that are working like static post work security guys that are doing close protection. Um, so it opens it up. Whereas my other books are really kind of, two of them are , um, like tour specific related. So if you're not doing tour security or wanting to do that, it doesn't make sense. And then the last one that you and I talked about, protection form from humanity, that's really a systems and processes book for anybody looking to implement security at their house or their office or , uh, you know, how to look at a specific situation. And this book's, not that this book is, is a behind the scenes on a world tour, kind of seeing things. And then, you know, the way that it's written is you've got a page with a photo on it, and then next to it you've got kind of a little summary statement or idea or concept that that will lead you down a certain path for that image, why it's significant. And then beyond that, there are some elements in most of the pictures that can be taken away if they really scrutinize the photo. So there are layers to it for everybody , I believe.

Speaker 1: 19:23

Well, the good thing too is it's picture books . I , I have the combat arms background with infantry and artillery, so pictures are very good for me. Marines obviously very good with

Speaker 2: 19:32

Pictures . No crayons. There are no crayons that come with this book,

Speaker 1: 19:34

So , oh. You know, that's one thing I was waiting for a crayon to fall out . Now that would've been perfect. Uh , brother, one thing I do wanna ask is we have a lot of people changing careers, and I tell people nowadays, whenever , especially when I talk about law enforcement, that, you know, law enforcement doesn't have to be like your whole career, you can go and do other things. Maybe someone reads this book or they, they talk about it and you're like , you know, man, I really wanna try something different. And you kind of almost in a way fell into this business and kind of said, oh wow, man, this is it. But nowadays with this advent of these things called podcasts and technology and stuff, we could talk about like, someone wants to get into this business. How would they, how would they even start?

Speaker 2: 20:15

Um , well there are a lot of ways to start. There is no one size fits all kind of way. Like this is the single formula to do it. And and mine was definitely, as you noted, falling in. Like it was not intended. It wasn't by design, it just happened. All these variables lined up. Uh , I had an opportunity, I took it and then I developed it further. Um, but I would say for most people, like if it was a young person and they really thought they wanted to do this, I would say to go into the military and do three or four years, I would say go into law enforcement and do three or four years, I think think there's kind of a , um, you know, a a a shelf life with a lot of that stuff for people, right? You can learn the primary lessons of military, the primary lessons of law enforcement in a very short period of time, right? And in one good tour, and not, not all tours are good, but one good tour, you, you learn a lot. And then I would start transitioning that way. So there are a bunch of companies that do different types of protection, but there are only a handful that do protection relative to celebrities like tour protection or, you know, celebrity on site , uh, like set location filming. Um, and I would start targeting them. The best thing to do for a young person, if they can go in the military now or go into law enforcement now and get that experience, that'll give them something on their resume. And then to start communicating early with the people that do the job that they think they want to do. And if they can find somebody that's like me, and when I say like me, I don't mean , um, to say that I'm good or bad. I mean to say that well tell them the truth. Meaning that, hey, you're gonna work a 16 hour day, six to seven days a week. It's not sexy. The sexiness is one hour here, one hour there, and flying around on a private jet and staying in a five star hotel that becomes very old. You're not gonna see your family, you're not gonna sleep in your bed, you're not gonna work out the way you want to work out . You're not gonna eat what you want to eat. So they need to find a mentor that will give them a straight scoop instead of selling 'em the sexy idea and , um, as much research as they can do on the local level, and then try to get it on the international level. So start early is, is the solution, right? Military law enforcement with an eye on transitioning, knowing kind of, that's the general direction that I want to head .

Speaker 1: 22:21

I like the reverse salesman technique as well. You don't sell the sexy, you sell the reality. And if you want the reality, maybe it's gonna be better than that, maybe it'll be worse, but at least you know what you're getting yourself into. If you've been in police, you've been in the military or anything into those fields, you're already gonna know what suck is. Nothing is, unless you're in like the FBI or some, nothing is like sexy, sexy all the time. You have to get there and you gotta, you gotta really experience something. That's why I like having people that have experiences and getting that, getting like adversity and then jumping into it and networking, find a mentor, whatever career you go into it. But specifically, if you're gonna get into this career, please get a mentor.

Speaker 2: 23:07

Yeah, it's a small, it's a small circle, right? And with, with technology now, things are, are much easier to access or find information about, you know, you're not going to the library using the Dewey Decibel system to find an Encyclopedia Britannica on protection work, right? You just punch in your phone and you find all kinds of information. The, the , the trick is finding the right mentor, finding the right field. Because let's say in , in my field, for example, I much prefer to be doing the advancing the site survey, right? Where I'm going to a place, I'm looking at a place, I'm taking photos, I'm writing notes, I'm meeting with people, I'm doing walkthroughs, and then I'm building this big picture, and then I pass it off. I receive the artist at the FBO, I move them to where wherever they're going, and then somebody else deals with them the rest of the time and I move on to the next spot. I like more of that movement. I don't like the politics of being up close and personal with the artist . Do I have that? Yes, I've got that with five or six clients that it's just the way the relationship was built, but I don't prefer that. So you have to learn kind of where you're wanting to go with it and , um, it , it can be done and there's definitely a way to do it. But as you said, if you learn how to , uh, deal with the suck from the military law enforcement side first, then it becomes much easier when you move into, you know, the private jets and the Four Seasons and all this silliness that comes with it. But let me tell you something. When you work in this industry, you don't know who the enemy is. And when you are working in those other industries, it's usually easier to figure out who it is you're gonna have a problem with. So there are some tricks there as well, but again , uh, an experienced mentor could, could articulate that.

Speaker 1: 24:43

Well , I love it, brother. The book is protective perspective. You're not a big huge social media guy, but we're gonna get this out there, everybody please check it out. Where can we find the book?

Speaker 2: 24:51

Uh, the book right now is available@tourprotection.com, and I think that should be on the screen right there , uh, under my face. Um, if it's not, tour protection.com is the site. Uh, eventually it'll go , uh, and when I say eventually two or three weeks, it'll be on Apple and iTunes and, you know, Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all that stuff, where the other books are at. But for right now, you know, we really believe in the actual hard copy of the book because you get to kind of see some of the photos and Mm-hmm , <affirmative> and things and , and the quality of the book, the thickness of the paper, the texture of the book. It , it's different. It's a different experience. And so , um, if you're interested in the book, I would buy it off the side . I wouldn't wait for the digital version with my other books. I don't think there's a huge difference with the digital, but with this book, there is, there's a visceral component to this book. Yeah,

Speaker 1: 25:36

Definitely, absolutely. Make sure you have the tour protection.com and if you could find Todd facts , follow him , but he's tough to find. Brother. I appreciate you.

Speaker 2: 25:46

Thank you. Congratulations, man.