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The Protectors® Podcast
Welcome to The Protectors® Podcast, where the valor meets the storyteller. Hosted by Jason Piccolo, a seasoned veteran and retired special agent, this series is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by the courage and tales of those who pledge to protect us. Beyond the front-line stories of bravery and dedication, this podcast goes a step further, weaving in the perspectives of those who bolster and narrate the protector's journey—featuring a remarkable lineup including New York Times Best Sellers and acclaimed Hollywood actors.
The Protectors® Podcast offers a diverse array of voices, from those who wear the uniform to the authors and entertainers who amplify their stories. It's a unique blend that highlights not only the raw realities faced by our protectors but also how their sacrifices inspire the narratives we cherish in literature and film. Each episode is a testament to the interconnected worlds of service and support, bringing listeners an unmatched depth of insight.
Dr. Jason Piccolo is a retired federal agent, former U.S. Army Infantry Captain (Iraq 2006), and author.
Past Guests Include:- Sean Patrick Flanery - Andrews & Wilson- Mark Greaney- Stephen Hunter- Remi Adeleke - Florent Groberg - Clint Emerson - Travis Mills
The Protectors® Podcast
#447 | Dale Dye | REWIND | Reflecting on Platoon: War Films and Veterans' Experiences
REWIND episode. Dale Dye joined The Protectors® in 2019. This was a definite fanboy moment for me, as a lifelong fan of Dale’s work in front of and behind the scenes from Platoon to Band Of Brothers and beyond. This 76th episode aired on December 19, 2019.
Join us for an enlightening chat with Captain Dale Dye, the force behind the groundbreaking '80s war film, Platoon, and the man who continues to champion military realism in Hollywood. We dissect the raw realities of Vietnam portrayed in Platoon, providing a fresh perspective on war movies, and discuss Captain Dye's pivotal role in initiating crucial conversations about PTSD and veterans' experiences.
We also delve into the work of Warriors Inc., Captain Dye's venture that has expanded beyond television and film to the publishing world, offering a platform for veterans to share their unique stories. What could be more compelling than literature penned by those on the front lines? Hear how these narratives help bridge the understanding gap between civilians and veterans. Discover the power of shared experiences and the therapeutic value of such dialogues among veterans. Explore, engage, and be inspired by our conversation with Captain Dale Dye - a hero, veteran, and guiding light.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
I have a very special guest today. I know I've said that a million times before, but I'd like to introduce you to Captain Dale Dye. How are you, sir?
Speaker 2:I'm good, Jason, and thanks for taking a few moments to talk with me today.
Speaker 1:Yes, I really appreciate this. We set this up a little while ago and. I've been waiting. So here we are, we're chatting. My first introduction to you was in the 1980s in Platoon, and that movie changed my life. I think between that and some of the other movies in the 1980s kind of pointed my path in the direction of joining the Army. Granthic Platoon was supposed to be one of these movies that was maybe not pointing in a direction in the Army, but there was something about it.
Speaker 2:What was that like for you.
Speaker 1:Was that your first one?
Speaker 2:No, it wasn't actually my first one, but it was my first one where I was allowed to do things my way in a movie and I started operating from an agenda, and that was simply to shine some long overdue and much-deserved light on the men and women who wear our uniform Platoon. I had a feeling the generic military movie I'd seen all my life. Just the common denominator was they pissed me off. They weren't us, they didn't talk like us, they didn't think like us, they didn't act like us, they didn't look like us, and I knew that there must be a way to correct that, and my Marine training told me that the way to correct it was to train those folks, to make them live a little bit of our life, to make them walk a kilometer or two in our shoes, and so they'd begin to understand and that understanding would permeate their performance and I was given an opportunity to prove that with Platoon.
Speaker 2:Now I've heard similar comments from guys about Platoon and I think it was a brutal, raw, unfiltered and unfettered look at an impetrimate's life in the jungle fighting in Vietnam. Now, there were works in that and there were elements of that as written and directed by Oliver Stone. That didn't cast necessarily such a great light on some of the soldiers, but I think in the overview, if you look at it, it told the story of how Americans, under intense pressure and in a really unimaginably indecipherable war where there weren't any absolute bads and any absolute goods and blacks and whites and so on and so forth, now those Americans coped with it and I saw that as a real chance to give America a look at her men who fought that war. And I think the neat thing about it and this is a much longer answer to a very short question but what really impressed me at that moment when that little movie that we made for just less than ten million dollars that's all we had won four Academy Awards and what happened was that a lot of the ice that had built up in American society, between America writ large and veterans of that war in Vietnam began to melt, it began to thaw and folks who wouldn't have said word one about their service in Vietnam suddenly became to use an improper term sort of come out of the closet.
Speaker 2:They said, okay, look, I was there, I saw some of that. Why don't you, mom and dad and my sweetheart and my kids, why don't you go see it? And maybe you'll understand why I don't talk about it a lot. And what that showed me was the power of the medium and how I could do bigger and better things, if people would let me do it my way, in terms of coaching and training the actors and so on and so forth. And of course, in Hollywood, nothing succeeds like success. So with that Academy Award winning film under my belt, I was able then to carry on and expand what I do in motion pictures and television, and it's kind of been onward and upward since then.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I believe that's where Warriors Inc came from, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had actually started Warriors Inc as a kind of a tax dodge. Early. I set it up as a company and then later, as we became more successful, I was able to hire people and I run it like a rifle company. I mean, we don't have a CEO, we have a commanding officer. We don't have a CFO, we have an adjutant. My executive officer is a guy who is with me as a young NCO in Vietnam and we've hired people off and on to do various projects and it's been a great thing. We expanded it beyond movies and television and video games and music videos, themed entertainment, and we also now run a Warriors Publishing Group which publishes books about the military and usually written by veterans. So it's been a skylark. It took off like topsy.
Speaker 1:Well, that's one thing I wanted to mention too, as Warriors Publishing Group, is that you have books on now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've written 13 novels and they including a series. That's kind of oh, I guess the closest comparison would be Lee Childs Jack Reacher's series, so it's a continuing character, and we've published some really terrific titles. We have John Del Vecchio's 13 Valley Reprint and I think the last count was 24 or 25 titles out there and they really appeal to the veteran audience. They can come to Warriors Publishing Group online and see all these great books either by veterans or about military topics in general, and what we've found here is that we've got a tiger by the tail. I mean, we're doing quite well in this age of e-publishing and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:Well, that's one thing. I wrote a nonfiction book. I'm writing another nonfiction book. I'd love to get into the fiction realm. And one thing I love is I've had a ton of really good authors on the podcast and the realism and a lot of more veterans, maybe SEALs, delta, all sorts of good guys that are just writing good books now, and that's the thing about the military is, when you're writing these books, there's such a sense of realism about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is, and you know what I'd really like to see and what I opt for. You know I've had about all the high speed, low drag, ranger, delta stuff I can stomach Not that they aren't great things, but geez, I get all the limelight. What I want is a book by a squad leader, you know a guy who just got out there with average Joe's and did what he had to do and did it brilliantly. And I look for those kind books and that's what we need.
Speaker 1:Right now there's such a huge influx and I shouldn't say huge, because only like a certain percentage of us have ever served in a war but there are so many vets that are getting into the media now into writing books, into TV shows and to act everything. And you know, range 15 is one great example of initiatives and you were part of that.
Speaker 2:Well, I hope so.
Speaker 2:I never intended to be an actor, but I've always had a creative bent. I mean, for all the years I was in uniform, I was always the guy around the campfire or around the ration cooker who could tell you a shaggy dog story and make it last for 45 minutes and entertain the hell out of everyone. That was always me and I guess it's my Irish heritage storyteller background. But it served me well in what I finally wound up doing once I retired Retired being a euphemism. I think I've tried to retire three times and have yet to do it.
Speaker 1:That's my second career is coming up and hopefully I'll be doing this podcast and stuff and all that. But yeah, and that's one of the military things about us we just can't stand still. I don't know if it's one of the. You have to find a new mission and the new mission turns into like Warrior's Inc Warriors Publishing, but it's really cool Well look we've all got a very low boredom factor, jason.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know from your time in uniform that anytime we get bored we get in trouble. So the big thing is find something that tickles the hell out of you and do it.
Speaker 1:Now you bring a different perspective and that's one thing I always liked about whenever I see you're associated with a movie. One of the big use for me was later on was the the Banner Brothers series and how you kind of went with those guys up into. It, felt such, you know, between the book and between you and everything else, it just had this you could tell there was a military, a real military influence behind it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I was very lucky. I had three weeks and Spielberg and Hanks behind me and they had been fans of my earlier work, so they let me do it my way. And I did. You know, I went as so far as to take them up to RAF Bryson Orton, the British number two parachute school, and run them through ground school and I built them into Easy Company.
Speaker 2:And you know an interesting aspect of that that nobody usually talks about, but I'm going to tell you, because now I have a flatmore. Before I ever trained the first American in that series, I trained a unit of Germans, and the reason I did that is because I believe that in movies and in television, if the enemy is just cartoon characters, cardboard cutouts who were there just to disappear in a pink mist, if you go that route you've really ratcheted down the gibberty. I mean, it looks like we're fighting clowns, and I said you know that that's wasn't true at all in any of the wars I had in the association with, and certainly wasn't true with the German army in World War Two. And so I trained them to be hard, tough, intelligent, tactically sound fighters, and those are the guys we use throughout the series.
Speaker 1:You know that. I'm glad you brought something else with that up because you always look at. You know, if you're watching you like the cheesy action movies, the enemies is like this faceless guy who you're killing. There's no anything about it, but that band of others absolutely had, like a great, not to say that the enemy is bad or good or whatever, but they had a great enemy in that movie, like you just didn't know what was going to happen, whether it's a sniper, whether it's a gun or whatever. Those guys were really good.
Speaker 2:And I know, yeah, I intended that and I did the same thing with Saving Private Ryan and with the Pacific, where we trained a unit of Japanese Imperial Japanese Army troops, and that's one of the little aspects that I bring to a film or a television series that I think nobody really gave a lot of thought to before.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not. And when you put a human face behind the enemy, you could either love them or hate them, or there's something there that maybe that's why we're interested in?
Speaker 2:Absolutely not.
Speaker 1:And that's what we can't do nowadays either. That's right. Well, one thing I really like is you're actually putting a face on veterans now, and especially the post-Vietnam era, but even nowadays and one of the programs I'm involved with is this program called Hillbets and what we do is we work in a transition veterans to work in Capitol Hill and politics and everything and one of the things we're working on right now is to merge the gap between media television and everything in veterans, Because right now, anytime a veteran does anything, it's like oh, they have PTSD, they're a killer, et cetera, and I'm sure that's the same thing. That was like when we came back from the war.
Speaker 2:It was yeah, absolutely. And here's the difference. And if there's one thing that I would credit my generation for, my Vietnam veteran generation, it's that the bad example that we were kind of forced to set has created a knee-jerk reaction. Let me explain that to you a little bit. I'm sure you know it, but I'm going to explain it anyway. When we came home, it was one of the most divisive times in our nation's social history. You were either ignorant of the war intentionally, or you hated it, or you were a big hawk, and the nation was just turbulent and divided with all kinds of things. And so when we came home, there certainly were no victory parades or anything like that. And because nobody wanted to talk about it, a lot of my generation of veterans just kept that stuff inside and in the long run it ate holes in their guts and they started self-medicating with drugs or alcohol and things like that, and that was a really bad thing for an entire generation of Americans. And so once we came out of that, closet with the advent of platoon and a number of other things and the so-called national welcome home I use that term euphemistically, but once we came out and started talking about it, the one absolute bottom line that we all said to ourselves writ large was that we will never let this happen again to another generation of American veterans. And I think a lot of us certainly me and my friends have worked to avoid that.
Speaker 2:I think there's way way too much crapola about PTSD. It's easy money for some people and that's a shame. But there is a psychological effect to having been at war and the best way to treat that, the best way to assuage some of that psychological trauma, is simply to talk about it. Don't hold it inside. I hear it from 100 veterans a week. I can't talk to my wife, or I can't talk to my mom and dad, or I can't talk to my old high school buddies who didn't go because they just don't get it and anything I say is misinterpreted and so on and so forth. And I say, well then, don't tell them. Tell me and tell some of the other guys who were there with you. They're easy to find, christ. Do you stand in line at the DMV and you can spot them. I can.
Speaker 2:I just go up and pinch their elbow and say, hey, bud, guess what, I get it. And you'll laugh and we'll start talking and maybe we'll have coffee or we'll just BS while we're waiting in line. But it's like they're back in uniform again. They're talking to a guy who gets it. We can shorthand so many things and I think that's so healthy and I encourage everybody to do it.
Speaker 1:I do too, and I kind of call it almost like a grassroots thing, because if I'm not growing a tough day, go 24, 48 hours right. I just want to bullshit with someone. But I'm going to call it 1-800 number If I could get now, with the influx of Excuse me With the influence of social media and phones, I could text them. You know, I could sure hit someone up.
Speaker 2:And you know, yeah, you can and and you know what? Look, I applaud all of these efforts. You know scuba diving for veterans, and guitars for veterans, and nature hikes for veterans, and horseback riding for and yada, yada, yada. That's all good stuff and and I'm glad people are Socially conscious enough to do that sort of thing for our veterans. But what really helps is If they can talk to another guy who gets it, and they don't have to know him from Adams off ox, all they have to know is that he's been there and he's done that. It's suddenly they'll unburdened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah it's like it's and it's true. This brotherhood, sisterhood or whatever Is just so easy and you're right, you could. You could spot the vet in the crowd, just like I just bought the alias in the crowd and veterans. But you, if you have an instant Kinship and you could just talk about whatever and Sometimes you just need to vent for a 10 minutes and then you're good for another whatever day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're good, you're good for a month. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean and I do it all the time when I'm on the road I spot these guys and you know it's it's hard to break away from them after it starts and, and I don't mind, I give them as much time as I can. But but look that, us, us veterans and I use the term to cover a lot of arrows, but us veterans, you know, the guys who've seen the elephant, heard the owl. One of the kindest and most helpful things we can do is just find another guy Right in the bus, you know, or on the train, or our God preserve us inside, you know, the I-95 circle in Washington. You can find those guys and you just you just say, hey, man, where'd you serve? And never mind, I did you. And then you start, and then that's him, you know he'll start telling you and and on it goes, and they walk away smiling and that's all it takes you know, maybe sometimes that'll save someone's life.
Speaker 1:It's almost like a ripple effect you help them out, maybe they'll help another guy roll out, and it just keeps going on.
Speaker 2:That's it, that's it, that's it directly on the nail head. Jason, you're right.
Speaker 1:And that's an. It's an. That's one thing. Look at the effect your movies and your participation in movies has affected millions of veterans and those currently servings. I mean that's such a huge thing, you know, and that's why.
Speaker 2:I hear him tell me that, so I hope, if you're, oh, it's absolutely true.
Speaker 1:You know, growing up we didn't have and I shouldn't say I'm not crazy old, I'm closer to 50 and 40 but growing up I didn't have social media and I used to just grasp and that's why I like the platoons and and all the movies were a big, huge influence and that's like it was so hard to find any books that had anything. And you're right to all the books back then and we're all Basically long-range reconnaissance, a couple marine books. I read the Hackworth books but there was hardly any, anybody those like you know a squad leader putting out a book. And now I'm like I like seeing that. You know platoon books are coming out, not like to books, but you have outlaw platoon by Sean Parnell. You're having regular guys Coming out and writing good books you know about yeah, I do.
Speaker 2:Going on now, the problem, the problem is finding publishers and, and you know, because the people who are publishers are, I mean, in New York, the people who are reading and making acceptor reject decisions are clueless, oh and and they're, they're, they're completely tone deaf to an entire generation of Americans who fought in Afghanistan and Iraq and and Syria, on, on and on and on. That's why I started Warriors publishing group.
Speaker 2:I'm not tone deaf to that sort of thing, nor is, nor are the people who are our fans, who look for those books and buy them from us, and you know, with the publishing market now you don't need a huge clearing, else you have England Sparks. You know, Amazon publishing.
Speaker 1:You know, I've come up to ring them Sparks and it's like it's in blinds in a with and everywhere. I want it to be, and it's true if anybody out there wants to write a book. Check out warrior publishing, warriors publishing. Yeah, I mean we're talking, service them. There's the stuff, because we need good. When you put your story on paper, it's a new world and Sometimes it's all there.
Speaker 2:Any news you need. It can be therapeutic. Jason, it really can we just now. Are you still with me? Yes, I'm right here. Okay, I heard some weird. Probably the NSA is monitoring.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's absolutely the NSA it's my wife, her and her ex-boyfriends right now are listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably so. But what I did? I took a look and I said we need a venue here. We need somebody that isn't the New York publishing establishment to step up and say these are worthy stories. Look, not everybody is a great writer and I can't fix bad writing, but I recognize good stories. There are so many of them out there. That experience of being at war or even wearing the uniform changes your whole perspective, your whole life, and if you can just tell that story, I mean look, it's therapeutic. You can simply start knocking those out and see if you're a writer. Maybe you aren't, but just the business of writing that story, telling it to yourself with nobody else, gives you a fresh perspective online, I think, and that's valuable.
Speaker 1:I agree completely and I always tell people when they're starting to write a book don't write it like you're writing from A to B to C. Don't write it like you're attacking an objective. Write it from hey. One day you want to write about A, write about A. If you want to write about D, write about D. Wake it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can start it together later. Yeah, for right.
Speaker 1:Just write. I'm so happy we talked about that, because I've queried a million different agents and they just don't want to hear the stories that sometimes military or law enforcement authors have to say. So it's a great perspective to have this out there for everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's absolutely true, and when you start, don't write for anybody but yourself. Those things that you're remembering and talking about are probably significant things, and what you want to understand is that they're so far out of the realm of the average individual these days that they make if nothing else, they make a great curiosity, and so people take a look at them.
Speaker 1:And maybe the book's just going to help you out, but it's going to help someone else out and you can read a book and, like nowadays, you can read a book in a day or two. So people are grasping for more books, so you could always keep writing, because everybody wants books. There's plenty of room for everybody out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is. I think the New York publishing establishment is on its last legs and they keep going to this day with big name authors like the people who are ghostwriting Clancy now, and Lee Child and all of those guys who are known thriller writers. That's where they go. And a guy who isn't that and goes to New York and tries to get published is in a long uphill slog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on Now. Do you have any charities or causes or anything you want to talk to me?
Speaker 2:I've got them all. I'm a big believer in the work that's being done sort of behind the scenes, with the. Vfw and the American Legion. I think they have a long history of helping veterans and providing good information and good practical help. So I kind of go with the established guys, although I'll help anybody that I think has a good cause.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've noticed that about you. You just keep giving back, and that's the big reason I really wanted to have you on as one of my guests. Like I said, you're one of my childhood heroes and you're one of my heroes now as an adult. That makes me feel, jason, you know what? We've got a 30 company or different size not that much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'm still out there doing pink tea, yeah, I know. Yeah, I got to. I got to outrun those young maggots and I got to keep it, so that all they want to do is stay up with the white haired guy and they're all right.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, next time I'm out your way, I'll stop by and buy you a cup of coffee or something like that. Terrific Love to do that. Well, sir, I really appreciate this and thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2:Sure, Jason, it's my pleasure and thanks for the work you do. I mean, look things like podcasts as well as publishing and movies and television and so on and so forth. They're all part of the big effort. They're all part of that big blanket of brotherhood that we share as veterans. So keep it up, You're doing a good job. Thank you, sir.
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