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The Protectors® Podcast
Welcome to The Protectors® Podcast, where the valor meets the storyteller. Hosted by Jason Piccolo, a seasoned veteran and retired special agent, this series is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by the courage and tales of those who pledge to protect us. Beyond the front-line stories of bravery and dedication, this podcast goes a step further, weaving in the perspectives of those who bolster and narrate the protector's journey—featuring a remarkable lineup including New York Times Best Sellers and acclaimed Hollywood actors.
The Protectors® Podcast offers a diverse array of voices, from those who wear the uniform to the authors and entertainers who amplify their stories. It's a unique blend that highlights not only the raw realities faced by our protectors but also how their sacrifices inspire the narratives we cherish in literature and film. Each episode is a testament to the interconnected worlds of service and support, bringing listeners an unmatched depth of insight.
Dr. Jason Piccolo is a retired federal agent, former U.S. Army Infantry Captain (Iraq 2006), and author.
Past Guests Include:- Sean Patrick Flanery - Andrews & Wilson- Mark Greaney- Stephen Hunter- Remi Adeleke - Florent Groberg - Clint Emerson - Travis Mills
The Protectors® Podcast
506 | Niels Jorgensen | Retired FDNY | 9/11
The memory of September 11, 2001 must never fade. We owe it to future generations to preserve the truth of that day - unfiltered and uncensored. They need to know about the brave protectors who, without hesitation, ran towards danger. These heroes - firefighters, police officers, and ordinary citizens - embodied the very best of humanity; true protectors.
But our duty to remember goes beyond that fateful day. Even now, over two decades later, many first responders continue to fight a silent, insidious battle against cancers and other illnesses stemming from their service. Their sacrifice didn't end when the dust settled; for many, it was just beginning.
About Niels: Niels Jorgensen, a retired FDNY Lieutenant from Ladder Company 80, was inspired by his firefighter father to join the department. On 9/11, though off-duty, he responded to the World Trade Center attacks, assisting in rescue and recovery efforts at Ground Zero for four days.
Years later, Jorgensen developed health issues, eventually being diagnosed with a rare leukemia likely caused by exposure to toxic air at Ground Zero.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
You know what, niels? We hit record Welcome to the Protectors Because, like always, we end up talking for about 20, 30 minutes before we hit that record button. But, niels, I want to jump right into the hard stuff. I want to jump into the hard stuff so then we can laugh afterwards about other things we were talking about, because you have had an incredible history, you've had an incredible life, but today is like a somber week.
Speaker 2:It's a somber week for some of us who remember what 9-11 was like, but that memory is starting to fade and now we have a new generation who has no idea, adults who don't understand what 9-11 was. We have adults in early 20s now who don't really. They were babies then, yes, but 9-11 just passed and those memories are still still so evident in everything, and even more evident than those for those who have actually spent time on ground zero the days and months afterwards, where that is still living with them every single day, whether it's in the cancers, whether it's in the cancers, whether it's in the other illnesses, whether it's in their friends and family who have passed or who are fighting for their lives with cancer, or for those ones who have deployed overseas after 9-11. I mean there's so much to 9-11 than just the attack. 9-11 still lives on. It's still living on, and that's one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to you today, because your story is incredible, man.
Speaker 1:Well, I first can't thank you enough for having me and you know, what I like to tell folks from the beginning is my story is not unique. I'm pretty much similar to so many now, unfortunately, hundreds and hundreds of my colleagues, brothers, friends, you know, but I take every opportunity I can to speak about them and about the day because you know, jason, I hate to say it but it's been forgotten by you know, a pretty large segment of the populace I met a young lady recently, a while back now, a couple of years back, and my wife and I and my family were on a plane. She was sitting next to us and she's, you know, intelligent, 13-year-old girl, and I wear my hat proudly all the time my old company 114 truck nicknamed Tally Ho, and she asked me about my hat and you know I. She said, oh, are you a fireman? And I said, well, I was for a very long time, but unfortunately I'm retired. And she said you look kind of young to be retired.
Speaker 1:I said, well, I had come down with cancer from my service 9-11. And she said, well, I'm sorry, you know, and I said no, thank you, she goes. I said, well, I'm sorry, and I said no, thank you. She goes but can you tell me what was 9-11 exactly? Wasn't it a plane crash? And I realized for a second and she said to me she apologized.
Speaker 1:She said they don't teach it to us in school and I wasn't born when it happened and it struck a nerve and I'm like, wow, she's right, she's no knowledge of it. And I'm like, wow, you know, she's right, she, she's, she's no knowledge of it. And I guess her family didn't talk too much about it. So, upon doing my own research, I came to find out that 9-11 is not taught in half the schools in the United States, by choice, those school districts and in 50% of the districts it's not taught, it's actually considered offensive, racist-based material that's offensive to certain segments of people and it's troubling because it's a huge, huge piece of American history. Although it wasn't a war, we were attacked almost in a warlike fashion and know we didn't have obviously as many casualties as wars, but we've had thousands and thousands of casualties and that continue now in the illnesses. So it's, it's just sad that, uh, it's been overlooked and it's been sort of pushed to the side. Well, you know when you bring up like not, realizing what it is and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I remember, you know, I, my, my kids didn't really know what it was. I bought them. Like you know, when you bring up like not realizing what it is and stuff like that, I remember, you know, I, my, my kids didn't really know what it was. I bought them. Like you know, like years, probably years ago, when they were like kid kids, I brought these little books. They said what was the twin, what were the twin towers? Little kids books. They were brought it up like solid, very solid. But you know, then I'm thinking about this week and this, this. You know, 10 years ago this wouldn't have been. But I'm like looking. I'm like the MTV Video Music Awards were on September 11th and here's like the thing for it Find out who performed at the MTV VMAs on September 11th and watch the latest videos from the 2023 show. It's just like our 2024 show, but it's just like you know, can we have one day?
Speaker 2:one day where and I'm you know listen life goes on. It does go on, yeah.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, something so historic.
Speaker 1:You know, we have holidays in this country and I don't disparage anybody.
Speaker 1:You know I respect every holiday and I know there's some some folks that are pushing to make 9-11 a national holiday and in a lot of towns it's become a unofficial day of service, which is beautiful to see.
Speaker 1:I've participating over the past, in the years past, you know, going to the intrepid, uss Intrepid in New York, and they have hundreds and hundreds of people putting together packs of food for poor people in need and it's beautiful to be amongst it because it's such a positive spin on the day. But to me, I feel that, you know, pearl Harbor Day and 9-11 should be national holidays because they were two of the most important days in our history, pivotal turning points in how America changed, right after those attacks. But hopefully, maybe in the 25th anniversary, which seems to be a date of significance, maybe we can get some legs and get some of the politicians who seem to love us on the 12th of September of and now they they seem to have faded away into the abyss because there's no more photo opportunities Uh, maybe we can get them to rally and and make this a national holiday.
Speaker 2:Well, one thing I've learned is that if there's no photo opportunities, you're not going to see any politicians anywhere. You know what I shouldn't? I should not say that, because you know, when we listen, there are a lot of congressmen, there's a lot of senators, a lot but you only see a certain amount of them on TV and online and doing rhetoric. So, yes, I'm sure there are some congresspeople out there doing the job.
Speaker 1:No, there definitely are. I mean, I had a gentleman that was wonderful to us. It was John Feal from the Feel Good Foundation. John was a construction worker that was horribly injured in the days after 9-11, trying to retrieve the bodies. He was an iron worker, you know, moving the steel and whatnot. And John took up the fight with James Zadroga, who was a New York City police officer who died early on of lung disease, and his family was denied benefits. And Jimmy's dad was a retired police chief who unfortunately just passed within the last year, and Chief Zadroga, his father he was a retired police chief from North Arlington, new Jersey.
Speaker 1:And John Feal, you know they coupled with the actor John Stewart and basically hammered Washington repeatedly for a couple of years and finally broke them down. But it was encouraging to see some of the politicians that truly had our back, but quite discouraging to see some of them that would run down the halls and hide when they saw John coming, you know, but by the grace of God we end up getting covered. Unfortunately, now the funding for that is running out and New York City Fire Department offered counseling services to any member that was at 9-11 who participated and within the last month they've actually suspended that. So the funding for that part of it has gone. So a friend of mine who was, you know, having a bit of a hard time in the approaching days to 9-11 this year, he was turned away and basically told he's got to get counseling on his own insurance.
Speaker 1:And you know some of our personal plans don't offer substantial counseling or minimal, very minimal counseling. And you know we're kind of a group specific kind of guys. You know it's most of the guys are suffering PTSD and anger issues and you know very specific to the event and you know there's not many practitioners out there that that specialize in that exclusive of the VA system. So we're at a real bad crossroads right now for that and we're hoping that somehow we can come up with funding. Maybe you know we're going to reach out and ask Tunnel to Towers to maybe help us out a little bit. They're phenomenal, phenomenal, wonderful organization.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know, when you're talking about reaching out to the Tunnel, to Towers, who is like a 501c3 nonprofit? I believe they're. Yeah, they're 501c3. Yeah, there's all these different Cs like.
Speaker 1:C19. Right. Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're already doing a lot. You know, they're doing their due diligence to help out. Oh, they're incredible.
Speaker 1:Well they're doing what the government should be doing.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I mean. That's the point. Yeah, housing for homeless veterans.
Speaker 1:I mean that should be a bunt right and it's just completely ignored by the government. And you know, now Tunnels to Towers has taken it on themselves to build villages, literally villages for homeless veterans. I mean it's beautiful to see, you know, if we could send billions of dollars here and there and we could study cockroaches living on Mars and everything else.
Speaker 2:There has to be a way to fund mental health. I mean, come on, yeah, to fund mental health resources, even if you have to subsidize education benefits. For for a second here, let's think outside the box. When you're going to see a mental health professional, nine times out of ten, they are educated. 99% of the time they're educated, yeah, and a lot of them have advanced education. A lot of them have even more advanced education to where they have a doctor in their name. Yes, now, in order to get that advanced education, they most likely had to take out student loans. That's right, let's, let's.
Speaker 2:I'm just this is popped in my head because you know, hey, whatever you know. So what we do is we, we have a core of mental health professionals who, if they serve in this capacity and they are specialized and they go through the specialized training to conduct mental health resources for the first responders, the 9-11 first responders, and not even them, but even the first responders now who are suffering from PTSD and on job related illnesses. And this is outside the VA. This is just our protectors on us, us oil, because you know when you're getting into the education system. When you talk about war fighters, you know things get a little weird. A lot of politics and stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, but let's say we have some sort of fund where they have loan forgiveness for mental health professionals who want to go and help With mental health, and this could, this could be across the board, because it's not you know, you and I are we could get. We could talk all day long about the Second Amendment and mental health and everything else, but mental health resources. I mean, we're always, we're always doing other things for people, like you know. Yeah, we're always doing other things for people. I'm just trying to think outside that there has got to be resources for our 9-11 first responders. There has to be, and it's not just when they're on the job, but people who have retired. You are dealing with these battle-borne scores because, believe me, it was war. It is a battle that you're fighting on the Us oil for the rest of your life?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, what I would find what mystifies me is we can. We can have billions just fall out of the clouds when I mean I don't want to get political and whatever, but you know we have an illegal immigration problem at the moment and it's costing the country billions, billions of dollars to the taxpayer. But there's no return on that price, there's no return benefit to society. There's a lot of crime involved with it and we're just letting it continue and actually get bigger and bigger. And you take these people who've dedicated their lives to service to a particular city or state or county or country, and now they, that job has broken them down somehow, physically or mentally. We're human, it happens, you know.
Speaker 1:But but I throw a term around say, well, who's going to protect the protectors? You know, when you spend your life in the military or in public service, emergency service, and now after 5, 10, 15, 35 years, you just you hit a wall. Who's supposed to? Someone should be able to pick that person up and say, hey, it's okay, you're human and we're going to help you. And what I've experienced in the guys and the girls that I've talked to out there, you know I try to. Anytime I see a military or first responder, I just try to say, hey, how are you, how are you doing? You know, and let them know that somebody cares. And you know the salient response from them is when you say, how are you doing? Most of the time they'll, of course, say I'm good. But you know what I feel, left out in the cold sometimes, I feel like nobody cares about us.
Speaker 1:And really when you think about it, right, you know I, people in their teens and 20s that are aspiring to go into that warrior class, military, first responder world, I sometimes wonder to myself where's the incentive anymore? You know they get paid not that great. Some, you know some localities better than others. Military, not nearly enough to survive. And then you see the stuff they're putting up with, the abuse from the public they serve and really the lack of gratefulness.
Speaker 1:Right, we have a barren landscape of gratefulness in the United States. It's just. And these poor people who venture into these careers, I think a lot of them are suffering regret a few years in now because you know, back when we started at least, there was that sentiment of patriotism and people would thank you. But I don't really see that so often anymore and there's still some great folks out there that will say thank you for your service. But I don't know. I mean, 50% of the population is cool with burning a flag and saying how much America sucks. But well, guess what man, get the freak out, I'll bring you to the airport and, you know, go to Beijing or go to Kiev or St Petersburg, russia, right now. See how that works out for you. Burn an air flag.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, one thing that you brought up was, you know, becoming a protector or pursuing a life of service or even just a portion of your life as service, Because you don't have to be like 20 years in LA or anymore 20 years as a firefighter. I mean, go, do, serve and then move on. You know, I always tell the stories. I'm like, when you talk about compensation, yes, some departments do compensate you well, but you know, let's say you live in LA and you're making a lot of money, You're still living in LA and you still got to keep an hour to get to work. I always tell the story about. You know, I used to visit one of my friends and a lot of the PD down in down South and you know, if you're making 20 bucks an hour, you're not making really $20 an hour to put your life on the line. $20, $23 an hour, Yep, and you have $1.03 between you and the next person. I mean you could be a sergeant making $1 more than the person next to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then I always stop at Buc-ee's. So I'm at Buc-ee's and if anybody ever goes to Buc-ee's there's going to be a sign out there and the sign's going to say we're hiring but they're going to put how much they pay. A manager at Buc-ee's is making $125,000 a year. Normal workers there are making $20-something an hour more than a first responder putting their lives on the line. And yes, at Buc-ee's can get robbed, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:But come on, you know when you're, when you're the sole officer covering a whole shift of a town of 5000 people and anything and everything that happens in the big cities happens in a small town. There is a huge misconception that major crime only happens in big cities. Major crime happens everywhere and you're supposed to respond to everything. And that's just. And imagine this it's not just police, it's fire as well to respond to everything. And that's just. And imagine this it's not just police, it's fire as well, EMS, it's everything.
Speaker 2:I mean you were literally, and putting your life on the line for barely living expenses, I mean for something a high schooler could be getting paid working at a Chick-fil-A or something. I mean it drives me nuts when it comes to that. But then let's, then you put your life on a line like, let's say you and that's one thing I didn't know until today is, let's say, you join you, become an nypd for a couple years, yeah, and then one day you're like huh, I really want to dress up like a fireman, which I hey, you know what, listen, I'm gonna. I get busted once once. Once we hit stop on this record, I now I gotta bust you about going from a cop to fd.
Speaker 1:That's, that's fine that's fine, my cop buddies, but my dad was a fireman, so they knew I was just waiting it out. Yeah, it's 36 years since I was in the academy and, uh, they still bust my chops man. They call me to sell out. And you know, way, know, way, way back in the day there was rubber coats. They used to call me the rubber man or the honeybee or you know. But they actually said to me good for you, it's a better job. And you know it's only a better job because nobody's shooting at you and no one's looking to get you fired for doing your job, you know, but it's still becoming a thankless job. And you know it's funny, Jason, you were hitting on the salary disparities.
Speaker 1:I was recently living in Tennessee for about three years and you know I had to pack it in for medical reasons and whatever, but I loved it. I loved every minute of it there. Wonderful folks. And you know I lived in a rural county and the county sheriffs are making $16, $17 an hour to start and after nine years they're up to 21. And then they study and they make sergeant and they make $22.50 or $23 an hour to, like you said, to have no backup. They're out on patrol by themselves at midnight covering a hundred square miles in their sector and when something happens they're rolling around on the side of the road by themselves.
Speaker 1:And one of my neighbors, who's a great guy, matt, and he he's a combat veteran from the iraq war and afghanistan came home to become a deputy sheriff and he studied his ass off and he got up to sergeant and he got stabbed by a tiny little 90 pound girl strung out on methamphetamine and he packed it in and he said you know what? I almost got killed on the battlefield. He was, he was hurt in theater and he said I'm not dying for 22 bucks an hour and I still have to work a second job after my shift and you know he went into the private world as a contractor and he's doing much better. But it's funny, you say there's a Buc-ee's up the road from there and those people in Buc-ee's make literally about three to four times more than the local sheriff deputies. I shouldn't laugh, but it's so sad. And the local firefighters and, worse, the EMS paramedics, who are only making 15 an hour, oh, man, when you talk about ems, yeah, I mean that's the other thing.
Speaker 2:Like you have the frequent flyers and that's sort of like. I mean people are calling ems all day long and they can't respond to regular calls. But here's a deal with ems they're getting run. You live in one of these counties where you have a really not a staffed EMS problem and you have to outsource it or you don't have them at all where they're going to be back to back calls.
Speaker 1:I mean there are real problems out there for protection and they have a lack of resources. I stopped for a bad road accident one day down there and a man lost his leg and it was bad. Lost his leg and it was bad. It was a bad wreck and it was literally about 25 minutes before help arrived and they ended up having to medevac one victim out and I, as a former responder myself and I actually started as a kid in the city EMS then went to police, then to fire and I was a combat medic in the National Guard and it was such a shitty feeling to be there for 25 minutes tourniquet on a guy's leg. He severed his leg, he wound up losing it.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately he was DWI, he caused the accident and then I had an elderly gentleman with a brain injury and I'm just saying mother of God, it was literally 25 minutes and it's no disparity. To the responders. They just were coming from 30, 40 miles away and you know it's it's we don't realize in in suburban areas, you know that are concentrated with population and resources, how lucky we are.
Speaker 2:Oh man, let me tell you, I went out. You know I went out and delivered some tourniquets a couple of weeks ago in Nebraska, out of nowhere, and you know I was out there and I kept thinking to myself what happens if there's a mass casualty event in one of these schools or something else, and you have like two or three officers. Ems is like counties away. Life flight, Think about life flight.
Speaker 1:You got maybe two or three helicopters in the general area, yeah, Well, my son-in-law's a nurse, my son-in-law's a flight paramedic, my daughter is a nurse paramedic in New Jersey and you know, they know a lot of the systems throughout the nation from training and whatnot. And they say you know, think about it. You're out in rural Nebraska and one of the life flights is already out on a cardiac call and the second one is 150 miles away on a traumatic car accident. You're literally going to lay there and die on the road waiting for the backup resources and it's sad and people take it so for granted.
Speaker 1:And again, getting back to financing, and you know we pump millions and billions into all these other obscure things, other people's wars, you know, and we can't pump millions and billions into our own. Really, when you think about it, probably one of the most important resources in life is emergency care. You know, like you said, law enforcement, fire, ems the mass incident happens. You know firsthand I said this and I went to some federal training the years after and this is unofficial off the record that there was far more aircraft there intending to plunge into buildings and they thank God didn't. But could you imagine if these terrorists or people that hate us set off multiple incidents in 15 cities around the nation simultaneously. We're in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 2:Well, looking at it this way, it's not even just setting off multiple things. But another trip I took out, I talked to a chief of police and I'm like, hey, you know what, here's some Toronto kids. He's like that's great. He's like you know what Real? I'm like what else could you need? And he's like look, when we have these big events are like if they cover a big town, they could be like you know, when you get, when you get a a catastrophic bleed, you're out in minutes. What do you have? Multiple people. He's like you know, we could really use is like these kits where there's like 10 tourniquets, like mass casualty kits, 10, 20 tourniquets. And I'm thinking to myself, oh my gosh, you know like when, when the foundation, we go out and we buy tourniquets, they're 20 bucks a pop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, but to get mass casualty kits out to all these, all these little towns. There are so many.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're all hurting, they can all use it and you think about it. You couple that with a few trauma dressings. You know, and I mean you're talking now hundreds of dollars per kit. Now you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of departments and it's. It's a great, great endeavor, but it's. It's huge logistically and and you know, finance wise it's huge. But everybody needs it, everybody's hurting and you know I had the blessing of working for an actor, dennis Leary, driving a fire truck for him on his show Rescue Me. Dennis is a wonderful guy. He has the Leary Firefighters Foundation and he goes around the country trying to equip these smaller departments, many of them rural, very, very tiny departments out in the middle of nowhere, and he tries to equip them with what they need. When you talk to dennis and he goes, wow, everybody needs everything, they're written and and. But you know what? These guys and girls still make? It work on a daily basis and they're volunteers, they're doing it for yeah and they have no budget to back them up.
Speaker 2:I mean you know, talk about unsung heroes, man volunteer fire departments yeah yeah, and volunteer ems, volunteer EMS units, the nation and they're.
Speaker 1:They're literally fixing their own trucks out of their own pockets and their own ambulances because they have that much town pride. You know, you have these little towns of 500 people and they have their own EMS station. Who finances it? Those 500 people in that little rural village? And it's a shame in the United States of America, with all the wealth that we have, that any department should be desperate for any type of equipment or material or resources. It's really a tragedy.
Speaker 2:I think we can't put all the blame on everything, but what I want to do is I. The thing is, maybe there are a lot of lucrative resources out there and and you know now that I'm in a nonprofit game trying to raise money is I'm learning that a lot of companies have no idea. I live in Falls Church, virginia, which is like one of the most expensive areas in the country. Believe me, I'm not one of the people that are rich driving around in Rolls Royce, but when you go around here, I think it's like out of sight, out of mind.
Speaker 2:When you get off of Route 95 and you get off on a back road, you get off Route 80 and you get off on a back road out west, east, everywhere, and you see what rural America is like, then you get a harsh realization that, wow, there's some hurting people out there, but also neil's you mentioned it before and there is a lot of protectors in these neighbors, a lot of protectors in these neighborhoods that are stepping up, the volunteers, the people, people who want to serve. I guarantee military recruitment in these small towns is so much better than in big cities, oh yeah, but there are still. There's still always an underbelly of people who want to be a cert of service and there always will be yes, but I think it's our responsibility is those who have lived a life and have a little bit of knowledge, to help them as much as we can.
Speaker 1:Well, you know it's. It's funny you say that because I love rural America. I've lived there and I love traveling through it. You know, I just drove up from Florida and I like to take all these little back roads through South Carolina, north Carolina, virginia, up the coast of Maryland, and you know, and I love it, and I like to stop and just obscure little shops, antique shops, little cafes, and I love to get the feel of what's going on.
Speaker 1:And what I really love about rural America is their sense of self-reliance. They're raised to rely upon thyself and thy family and thy neighbor, because there's no one else to rely on in these areas and that's why there's such a percentage of folks in the military that come from these small areas, because they're raised that way and they're inspired by their parents, their uncles, their sisters, their brothers. You know, I like to say this to people and I hate to use cliches, but you know we're saturated with influencers in America, right, all these people that want to sell you. You know, whatever it is big lips, big, this big that you know like they're, they're looking to sell you something. But I like inspirers and I was inspired by my dad.
Speaker 1:My dad still have him, he's 85. I mean, unfortunately he's in the hospital right now, but he was a New York city fireman for 34 years. He came down with cancer when he was 38. Guy used to go to work on chemotherapy and that guy inspired the shit out of me. I'm sorry to eat. My Irish mother's going to get mad if I curse, but she actually holds her own in a cursing department.
Speaker 1:But I was inspired by this man and my dad's co-workers. They, you know, come to barbecues and come to my house for dinner and I just looked up at these guys. You know I used to call them the giants with mustaches when I was a little kid and I wanted to be them. I was inspired to be them and I think a lot of these young folks, especially in the rural areas, they're still, thank God, being inspired by the good people out there and then that's why they go into these warrior class professions, as I call them. But you know, as time and technology move on, I think that's going to start shrinking more and more because, you know, more of these young people leave to go to the cities for employment. Young people leave to go to the cities for employment and I hope it continues. I hope that pipeline of good people never ceases, because if it does, I think our country's in trouble.
Speaker 2:You know, our country's always been in trouble, neil. It always has been. It always will be. I hate to like. I love to say that it's positive, we're going to snap out of it with new elected officials or anything else, but there's always going to be issues, yes, but one thing I do. One thing I do remember is september 12th. Now it was a little bit different for me because at the time I was a border patrol agent but I was also um, I was enlisted. When I was a kid in the 90s. I commissioned as an officer. So I was actually at fort benning the former that's fort moore, I think but I was at fort Benning the former that's Fort Moore, I think. But I was at Fort Benning, georgia, for infantry officer basic course on September 11th. I was there June through September, end of September. So it was different for me because I was an LEO already but I was a reservist at training. So on September 11th I was actually getting ready to go to the field to do our urban assault training for the week.
Speaker 2:So, September 11th happens, we're attacked. They call everybody out who lived in New York or from around there and we found that nobody, thank God, was affected. But I didn't know what September 12th was because I was in the field. The only thing I knew about September 12th was the newspaper clips that our tactical officers would bring out and show us. But coming back from the field and seeing what the life was like on September 12th and seeing everything happen, I lived through the memories of others.
Speaker 2:But September 12th, where everybody's together and everybody's like hey, you know what, there's a cop, I'm going to buy him a cup of coffee. But you know some simple things. Yeah, you can be adamantly against the police and everything else, but on that day the nation stood together. Now what? And recruitment was up across the lines. But for you, september 12th was your own morning. I want, like for the listeners who don't know about you, I'd like to really go into your story now. I mean, yes, you were NYPD for a couple of years, but your whole life was committed to the job, committed to the fire department, committed to one of the most dangerous jobs is a fire department in a big city with skyscrapers and big tall buildings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very dangerous. So let's go into the like that day, man yeah, well, I and before we start, if you don't feel like talking about any of this at all, I am more than welcome to talk about you know nothing's out of bounds.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, for me jason is therapeutic because, again, I I take it as an opportunity to try to speak for my buddies and a lot of them are suffering in silence because they're retired. You know several of them are divorced and you know some guys are facing substance abuse problems. You know, trying to ease their pain, emotional and physical pain. From that day, yeah, I had the blessing of putting in 22 years in New York City Fire Department. I retired as a lieutenant in 2012. And what happened? I was forced out on a medical retirement. I have, technically, an incurable leukemia from my service down there. It was attributed to it but by the grace of God, I'm presently in full remission. But on the day of 9-11, I was off shift, as we call it tours of duty, and I was on one of my two moonlights driving a truck and you know, to give you the abridged quick version, I saw I was in Staten Island, which is across the harbor. It's probably with no traffic. You can. You can fly into Manhattan in 20 minutes, but on most mornings it's two hours driving a truck.
Speaker 1:At the news radio on, I hear planes struck the towers. I look over the harbor. I could see the black smoke and I'm like this isn't good. But in New York City we have so many responders, we have such a massive force. I mean we have probably, you know, between EMS and fire, which is now combined, there's about 14, 15000 personnel. Nypd back then was up at about 36000 personnel. So they don't really want the off duty platoons racing into events unless there's a general recall which means you're obligated to go to your command, get further orders. So I'm thinking about it. I'm like, ah, it's probably a Learjet that veered off trying to get pictures of the towers. You know, got buffeted by the wind. And I'm looking, I'm like, all right, it's a minimum of like a fifth alarm assignment plus relief companies, a few hundred guys.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden, second plane. I realized, wow, okay, I was at the first bombing in 1993. And in 95, we had a training manual with a picture of the towers and a target and it said, not a matter of if but a matter of when, be prepared. And I went holy shit, they knew this was coming. I put the truck up, told my boss I got to go. He understood.
Speaker 1:I raced into my command in Brooklyn, this truck, towelhead 114. I checked in with upper command. There was nobody in the firehouse. The on-duty guys were gone. I heard them get there. As I got in the firehouse I heard them on a department radio. My lieutenant, dennis Oberg, wonderful, wonderful man, platoon commander Tragic irony is his rookie son, what we call Proby, was killed that morning.
Speaker 1:And in my first assigned truck, ladder 105, dennis Jr was serving and the senior firefighter that day, where they keep a young guy under the wing because they just want you to, they don't want you to get jammed up in a big event. Well, in 1993, a firefighter, henry Miller, was my senior man and I was under his wing and he looked around and he said, kid, they didn't do it right, they blew it off in the middle. Next time they'll get a corner, they'll get a column, they're going to drop these buildings to canal street. Well, the cruel irony of that is henry miller was overlooking dennis jr and they were killed together. Henry knew, henry knew it they would come back to do it. Uh, we commandeered a city bus, 12 of us off platoon raced in, grabbed our gear and as we were coming over to Brooklyn Bridge mid-span, we had a radio with us. The second tower dropped right in front of us so we were late for the battle. A lot of us still crushed with that guilt. We didn't get there in time to help our guys. By the grace of God my truck 114, lieutenant Oberg saw as the building was starting to disintegrate, turned the men around, just said run, don't even ask a question, don't look, just go. And within 40 feet they were spared. But the pile landed next to them and anybody that was just behind them in the race out was killed.
Speaker 1:Basically spent about the first four days almost straight. That morning we did search and recovery in the buildings adjoined to 7 World Trade which had the city's backup emergency operations center and in it was a 25,000 gallon tank of diesel for the backup generators and that tank of diesel was burning consistently throughout the day just black, black smoke. That was where I primarily was searching those adjoined buildings for life. So I had no air mask, I had nothing. So basically I was just sucking down, you know, bad, bad smoke for many, many hours. My doctor feels that that was the trigger for my illness. I have a very rare leukemia. That's linked to gentlemen who worked in refineries processing jet fuel, kerosene-based fuels which are diesel.
Speaker 1:Pretty much that night about five in the morning the next morning our lieutenant who we were under command, he just ordered us to get back to the firehouse. We couldn't see, we couldn't breathe. We were on the pile that was searching for the last couple survivors that were retrieved. They were Port Authority police officers. So we went back to the firehouse. We quickly cleaned up, got our other set of gear and we went back to the site, finally got relieved of duty about four or five days later and I finally got home and my wife said Well, you know I do have some good news we're going to have another baby.
Speaker 1:And the crush for that was my childhood best friend, john Sharp, who was on platoon on duty. He was killed and his wife had called the firehouse that morning and said please find John. I just found out I'm pregnant. And I said to my wife Annie well, you know Johnny's wife's pregnant, but he's dead, he's not coming home. And I walked away because I was crushed with guilt, basically spent as much time as I could down at the site trying to recover our guys.
Speaker 1:And you know there was 2,977 souls that were lost that day. Majority of them were at World Trade Center. Less than half of them are still not identified. So we had to basically get back to our platoons serving the city as fire protection while this simultaneously was going on this search and recovery. After about four days they just determined that no one was alive, no one was coming back, and part of the cruelty of that was we have a motion sensor alarm on our air packs and if we're to stop moving or go down unconscious, within 30 seconds it just shrieks. An alarm just keeps going off until you either shut it off or someone shuts it off for you. And within that pile for days we heard those alarms. Which was the guys who were underneath and the only reason those alarms stopped is because the batteries ended up dying and all of those firefighters were killed and eventually were retrieved. But again, half of our members that we lost 343 firefighters that day and just under half of them have still not been positively identified because there wasn't a large amount of discernible human remains that we would find On the second day of the operations 9-12,.
Speaker 1:It was a very strange, conflicting day because it was probably the saddest day that I remember, because it all set in. We realized nobody's coming out of here, but the beauty of it was there was thousands and thousands of people lined up on the perimeter of the Trade Center with signs and offering, you know, as guys were walking in offering water and coffee and hugging them, and it was beautiful. It was just like wow, like how we're so unified. And I remember saying to one of the older guys this is beautiful, maybe now this will be permanent. And he shook his head. He says kid, don't fool yourself, by Christmas Don't forget all about it. And sad enough, it took probably a little longer than that, but yeah it, you know, just became life again. Just became life again. So it took until May 30th of 2002 to actually finish the retrieval and cleaning out the debris from the site of what was formerly the World Trade Center, and then the process of reconstruction started shortly after.
Speaker 1:So we spent, you know, about nine months of our lives, some guys more than others, down at that site trying to retrieve our brothers and those other poor souls that were murdered. And early on the guys started suffering really serious coughs. You know, first night down there I felt like I'd swallowed a box of razor blings. I just felt, from the roof of my mouth down as far as I could feel, just on fire, and it was like the worst sore throat you've ever had, and everybody there was expressing the same thing and we kind of knew that whatever it was we were breathing in was just not good, of knew that whatever it was we were breathing in was just not good. And then the illnesses started. Probably about a year after you know, they started really kicking in and then, two years after, three years after, the first firefighter we lost was a gentleman, john McNamara. He was only 31, a newborn baby, and he died of extensive colon cancer.
Speaker 1:You know, it started out and it just took off and he was gone within months and after him we started realizing there's a problem. A lot of guys started to become sick and unfortunately now, 23 years later, it hasn't slowed down. And unfortunately now, 23 years later, it hasn't slowed down. There's over 4000 people recovery and rescue workers that served at World Trade Center that now have died of cancer and lung disease. I believe it's 4300. And it surpassed the number killed. You know the 2977 of that day. It surpassed the number killed. You know the 2977 of that day.
Speaker 1:And we've FDM ourselves have had 370 guys that have passed of serious cancers and we have several at the moment in hospice. I personally, in my group of colleagues and former brothers, almost half of the guys that I know personally have cancer or serious respiratory distress, and I can't even tell you how many guys that I knew personally that have died of cancer. I mean, it's just you become numb from the amount of funerals and you know having, by the grace of God, being a cancer survivor, when guys become ill, a lot of times they'll, they'll, you know, put them in touch with me or another one of my brothers that's gone through the process. So at least they know what they're in for. And a lot of these guys I'll speak to I didn't even know from the department, but the phone calls never end and I will never not pick up. But it's sad because sometimes when you hang up and you realize what cancer they have, you kind of know in the back of your mind they're not going to make it. You know, one of the cruel things for me you know it adds to, I guess, survivor's guilt is when I first got sick in 2011.
Speaker 1:One of my buddies, larry Sullivan, big strapping Irish guy from the heavy rescue Rescue 5. We hadn't seen each other in a while and we were both down at the medical clinic and he was looking great. He lost a bunch of weight. I said, geez, larry, how you doing? You look great, you look sexy. He was looking great, he lost a bunch of weight. I said, geez, larry, how you doing? You look great, you look sexy. And he was kidding around and he smiled and he went yeah, it's not for the right reasons, bro. And I said, geez, you know, you're right. He said, well, I got cancer in the duodenum, which is the connector of intestines to stomach. It's moving out. And he says what about you? What are you doing here? And said I got, I got leukemia and and he looked at me, he grabbed me, gave me the tightest hug and he says listen, bro, we're too big mix, I'm half Danish, half Irish. He says we're gonna beat this shit. We got this man, don't worry about it.
Speaker 1:And you know, a year later I'm standing at Larry's funeral trying to keep a crisp salute and I'm shaking because I'm sobbing and I'm crying. And you know, the guy went from being a 280 pound, you know, just oak tree emaciated, down to 130 pounds before he succumbed. And unfortunately he's one of hundreds and it's just not slowing down, you know. And recently a dear friend of mine went to seek counseling that was offered to us and he was told that the funding for counseling services for retired members has basically just gone away, like it's run out. So he's on his own to find. You know, hopefully his medical insurance covers it.
Speaker 1:But you know, a lot of people are quick to say hey, get over it. It's 23 years later. It's true, it's a long time, it's a lifetime ago. But as you know, having a life of service, you can't just get over it. And you know, when you see your friends passing away and the pain of the families.
Speaker 1:You know, I drove to North Carolina the other day, on 9-11, because my best buddy, john, who died and who his son, who he never saw, was born in days later.
Speaker 1:I went to see his mom because I was supposed to bring her to a memorial service down in North Carolina, a beautiful service by a local fire department.
Speaker 1:They put 343 pairs of boots in front of their firehouse with a nameplate for each of our lost and I promised her I would escort her because my friend's dad passed away recently.
Speaker 1:Well, she ended up in the hospital and I didn't have the heart for her to be alone on that day and I got to the hospital rehab center and there she was watching the roll call of the names on TV, crying, and you know, most people don't see that. They don't see that woman suffering for her son all these years later and it just tears your heart out, you know. But the flip side is it makes you more grateful. You know, as I said earlier, there's a saturation of influencers who just want to sell you crap. I love inspirers and I'm inspired every day by my friend John and Dennis Jr and Henry Miller, the senior man, my senior man, father Michael Judge, who was our chaplain, who died with our guys, who died with our guys. I'm inspired by those great souls to, yeah, to be a, to be a better man. You know I I know I'm far from perfect.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty I tell you what man. You brought something up that I think should become the norm. Inspirer, yeah, inspirer, I mean. Yes, I, I see it all like me. I'm. The only reason I do social media is for the podcast foundation or whatever, right, and I do see the influencers trying to sell something, and they'll sell snake oil to anybody. And these are people. And you know, even the sadder thing is, a lot of these quote-unquote influencers are people that have you know they've served, but they use their service in order to be an influencer. What I'd love to see is people going out there and becoming an inspirer. Inspire other people to help others out.
Speaker 2:You don't necessarily have to put a uniform on, but maybe, like now, like what you're talking about is like you brought up a great fact and we brought up this a bunch during this podcast about not funding mental health resources, not funding health resources. Yes, you're retired and yes, it's been 23 years later, but you don't get over it. You'll never get over it. His mom will never get over losing her son. You'll never, ever get over losing yeah your, your, your friends and your family.
Speaker 2:You just listening to you tell the story of the. The tower collapsing is the absolute. That's ptsd. It's not going away. Your hurt is never, unfortunately, neil's, I'd love to tell you that you're going to wake up one day and the shine, the light's going to be the brightest shine. You're going to wake up one day and the light's going to be the brightest shine.
Speaker 1:You're never, ever going to remember that memory again, but you're always going to have that memory. You know it's funny, I have no shame in saying it. You know I speak to a counselor and you know I get angry sometimes, like last year. There was some wokesters that were protesting and saying that Osama bin Laden had it right and they're burning an America flag and that we deserve it. And it set me off. I was screaming at the TV, you know, and my wife goes. I completely get it, but maybe you need to talk to somebody to help you put that on a shelf. And I said you're right, it's time. It's right, it's 22 years. At the time I'll go and I have to say it helps wonders. And you know, as my counselor Jeff will tell me, you're never putting this away. He goes, it's just a matter of like. When you have to organize a shelf in your closet to put stuff in certain spots, know where they are, but they're never. You're not throwing them away. And you know I've had some people say to me I had the honor of hosting a podcast for the 20th anniversary of 9-11 called 2420.
Speaker 1:And it was 20 different stories about people who are involved on the day and it was a volunteer mission. You know I had some people oh, are they paying you? No, I'm actually laying money out to make it. You know, put it together. You know, help my traveling and whatever. And the stories that people trusted me with you know most of them were survivors who lost a loved one to the event. Most incredible experience for me because I realized, you know, the cross section of suffering and people who are affected children and parents and you know it was just and their stories were all unique. You know there's thousands and thousands of unique stories that day.
Speaker 1:And you know my wife said to me one time she's my best friend and my best critic and, you know, married 33 years and she's been through a lot and her father was a fireman. So she gets it. And you know her dad and my dad were friends and you know the families get each other. We're from a family of service. But she said to me lovingly do you think people are going to start to think that you almost think you're the only guy who was there and the only guy who got sick, because you constantly talk about it whenever you can? And I said I hope they wouldn't think that. I said because I don't, but what I do believe is someone like you gives me an opportunity to speak of my friends and speak of their. You know what happened to them and the subsequent fallout for their families and the other guys and girls that are suffering all these years later from the emotions involved. I'll never stop speaking about it and I hope no one would think that I'm doing this for my own. You know, whatever it is, it is actually therapeutic to just air it out. But until I'm called home by my creator, by God, I'm going to keep talking about it.
Speaker 1:Because you know, I say to people I thank God that he made me a New York City fireman. I thank God he let me follow my dad, who's just the greatest firemen. I thank God he let me follow my dad, who's just the greatest. And I say this to people you know I worked with giants and some of them were only five foot seven and 160 pounds. But, man, I worked with the best people that God put on this earth and unfortunately, hundreds and hundreds of them are now gone.
Speaker 1:You know, I had that honor, that privilege of serving in the military, serving as a police officer, serving as an EMS technician and as a firefighter and you know, I wish I could go back and honestly, I do it for free. You know, I've had my friends who are still on the job, the few of them that are left, or the guys are retired and they're like you're out of your mind. I said no, I would go back for free if they would let me, but I'm not allowed to be a firefighter because I have leukemia and it's now a liability. And if it's a relapse, then who's responsible? And you know, it is what it is and, Niels, you're still serving.
Speaker 2:You know, in a way. I mean, your voice is your service now, and a lot of people don't understand that you have a mission as long as you say their names and you know that's why I do.
Speaker 2:I've got to bring up my friend gene, because you and I were talking about it before. Yeah, it's like you know, that's the. The greatest responsibility I've had in a long time was trying to tell his story at little bits at a time. Yeah, and do I feel like that serves for me? No, but gene is still serving by by lending his voice out out there and talking about this stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and his story is powerful. I mean, he had me in tears because you know, I call people who have cancer. We all work at the same corporation but in different departments, right, because so many different cancers, but all of them come attached to that fear and that stress and that uncertainty. You know, every cancer victim or patient I've talked to says the same thing it's the fear is the worst, because every day you're getting up and you're saying, okay, god is today. Today, though, I step on that other mind. You know that is that other foot going to, you know, other shoe going to drop, so to speak, and it's really hard to manage that.
Speaker 1:You know I was sick 13 years ago and I'm not going to lie. Every day I'm scared man, every, every pain, you know every, you know it's just you wonder, is it back? Is it in my bones? Is it in my brain? I just went through a wicked, wicked case of shingles because my amino system is so crashed from the leukemia and I ended up in the hospital for weeks with convulsions and you know, massive, massive blisters and pain and lost my hearing and but by the grace of God I mean it's seven, eight months ago I still have vicious nerve pain and I'm deaf in my ear. But I'm here to feel it, I'm here to experience it and I actually look at it as like a blessing in a sense, because it re humbled me to realize, holy shit, like every day we get in life that's not loaded with pain or or stress.
Speaker 1:Or you know someone else we love suffering pain every day, you know, is gravy, it's just we're so lucky and I try to do that, I try to prophesize that to people. Just be grateful. A guy like Gene, I know, is thanking God for every day and every minute with his family and, god willing, he's going to have 100 more years of it. But it's scary. But the one thing I realized is that, especially survivors, we can all kind of boost each other up, you know, and and ingredients we could all be rescued. Just cling to those ingredients faith, hope and love. Surround yourself with your friends, your family, the things you love to do. You know I love getting out in nature. I'll just go down to the beach and watch seagulls or pelicans or, you know, walk through the forest and watch the deer.
Speaker 2:I mean, I find inspiration from that and I think that's one of the salient problems in society is that we're so overloaded with tech and phones and media and social media that we're not getting back to the old basics of just fresh air and nature, or even having a conversation with someone you know know I'm very selfish when it comes to having a podcast is because this gives me an opportunity to learn and to talk to people and to tell stories and hear stories and yeah, well, I learned about. One thing about gene's story is like you understand that this 9-11 wasn't just. It wasn't just the protectors out there man gene. Gene was a protector, you were a protector. But then I have other friends who were steel workers. Everybody else responded that day Volunteers volunteers volunteers, a lot of people.
Speaker 2:You know, as someone like, when I was in a war, I was in Iraq and I was in a place called Balad and Balad has some of the shittiest burn pits out there and I always try to explain to people about burn pits and toxins. Is you can wear all the masks in the world? I mean well, you, when we're talking like cloth masks. No, you can't wear them 24 7. But when it happens, these particulate matters get into your body and particular matters are like microscopic. Yes, these things that get into your body. That's what causes a lot of these cancers and so many people have got these.
Speaker 2:So you have someone like gene, you have someone like you who are dealing with cancers and if anybody who hasn't heard the podcast, I talked to my really good friend, gene o'neill, and gene's told the story a couple times on here. But he had he has cancer. He has cancer from 9-11. This is his second bout with it Now, 22 years later 23 years later. But you know when, when you brought up again before, people are like, well, just get over, it's 23 years later. But when you have friends and when you have people, you know who are suffering and you know Gina and I are really good friends. But the thing is, gene has family. He has people who are directly going through the struggle with him day in and day out, who are watching the epitome of strength getting beat down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you lay in that hospital bed and you look up, I was in a cancer ward for a month and at first my kids didn't know what was wrong with me. You know they were. They were nine, 11 and 14 at the time and when they would leave for the night I would beg God, I would cry and beg God, please let me live long enough to see them grow, to grow up, possibly get married, graduate college. But then, when I was getting hit, I got hit with a massive amount of chemo. I got the equivalent of two and a half years of infusions in seven days in massive bags. That never stopped.
Speaker 1:And for me, I had a unique cancer with a unique treatment. They had to burn out my bone marrow in the hopes that the seedling marrow would regenerate and save my life, and by the grace of God it did. If it did not regenerate in that course of a couple of weeks, I was told I'd be dead. That's it, you're gone. And at one point I switched gears and the pain was so vicious that I was begging God to take me. And I felt like my God, how selfish am I? I want to die because the pain is so bad. And then, you know, I had this kind of vision of my mother-in-law and my friends who had died and I was, I was, it was, the chemo was so bad and it was. You know. One doctor wanted to say it was hallucinations, but and they all said to me no, like they just came and they went. But my mother-in-law stayed and she had just died six months before and she used to call me her boyfriend and she said my boyfriend, because we had an Irish thing, we both like to talk a lot conversations and she said he's not ready for you yet. You have to go back, annie, and the kids need you. And I was pulling. I said no, nan, nan, that was her nickname. I said I want to go bring me home with you. Let me go see God. I can't do this. And she giggled, she said no. He said no, he's not ready. And she faded away.
Speaker 1:So I had a doctor who was an atheist and she thought I lost my mind. So she sent in this other doctor. So this little man comes in and he was a rabbi in one of the communities I served, borough Park, brooklyn. So I was wearing the hat I always wear it because I'm covering up for my baldness, you know. And he says, oh, 114, you know he knew our truck. And I says hey, doc, I don't remember you being on my cancer team. And he said no, no, I'm actually the head psychiatrist. And I said, oh, okay. So he goes. Look, they say you're having some issues, you're seeing people, and you know I'm putting on his accent, you know. So I said well, doc, he goes, let me hear your story. So I told him the whole story, what happened, and I ended up with seeing my mother-in-law and this and that, and he laughed and he goes I believe you, my friend.
Speaker 1:He says the problem is the other doctor has no faith. He said let me explain this to you. He says we both work for the corporation of God. He said I'm over here in Judaism, you're over there in Catholicism. But he said we just work in different departments but for the same corporation, god. And he goes she has no idea.
Speaker 1:So he said I've heard this hundreds of times. He was a doctor for 40 something years. So he said I've heard this hundreds of times. He was a doctor for 40 something years. And he said I've heard this hundreds and hundreds of times from patients in your condition. He said take the gift, take the blessing and go.
Speaker 1:They did push you back. Go live a good life, go do some good things, beat this cancer. And then he says so what do you want to talk about now? I said well, what do you mean, doc? He says, well, they're paying me for an hour. That took 30 minutes. So we watched the Yankee game for a half hour together and you know, it was one of the most profound lessons I've ever had in my life, because this man of medicine who shared just as strong of a conviction to his faith, he healed me in a certain respect, because I started thinking the other doctor, maybe she's right, maybe I was crazy, maybe I lost my mind. And then I realized, no, it's the chemo, it's, it's the body fighting, it's the battle. And it all made sense. And now, all these years later, with this gift of remission, my God, I mean I try to thank God every minute. You know, when I got forced out of the department six months later, I was devastated because you know that's what I did.
Speaker 1:That was my life man, oh, it was my priesthood, riding on that fire truck. And you know, it takes a good 20 years to really get, say, good at the job. It's because there's so much to learn. You know, you're learning every day, every fire, every car accident. So you know, I had 22 years in at that point and I'm like all right, I'm good now. I think I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:And you know, I just, and all of a sudden, boom, it was over and I was gone and I'm sitting at home, you know, just got into remission and I'm walking my rescue greyhound and talking to her and I get the call. And I'm walking my rescue greyhound and talking to her and I get the call and I'm off. You know, I'm retired off on medical and you're done. And I looked at my dog and I'm like what are we going to do now? And she just kind of looked up like I guess we're going on more walks, you know.
Speaker 1:But I was lost. I lost my identity, I lost my purpose, I lost my conviction to helping people. But then I realized, hey, you know, my wife finally said to me you've got to get past this, you're alive. And you know, I look at it now and I go yeah, I'm still alive. And now my oldest daughter is a nurse, paramedic and a trauma nurse and she's a healer. And she said she became a nurse because of she saw my nurses bring me back to life, literally, you know, and I say wow, then you know, I know. Now I know why I got cancer because my beautiful daughter is now out there healing people and making a huge difference in their lives.
Speaker 1:So I try to look for that silver lining in everything that's taken place in my life and it. You know, there's days I won't lie. I mean I was down and I was pissed off and I drank too much, my life. And you know, there's days I won't lie. I mean I was down and I was pissed off and I drank too much or whatever. And you know, then I realized that's not going to help and you know it's sort of like the pain of that day it never goes away, the loss of what you identify doing. But you manage it. And now I actually take strength in helping other guys that are going through the cancer process. I've spent hours on the phone with them, sometimes because they're scared and I was scared, crap. And I don't care how big of a guy, how strong, how much they can bench, press this and that you get that cancer diagnosis. It's like someone swinging a sledgehammer into the middle of your chest and knocking you down. It is the worst.
Speaker 2:You, you literally lose your breath and just about every guy I've talked to who's gotten and girl who's gotten that diagnosis has said the same thing I know like when, when gene told that story and I know you've heard it is like everybody around him's like you got this, you got this, you got this goes. No, he's like doctors got this. You know, some other people's got this. He's like I don't got this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, my faith is strong and I don't preach at people, right, I'm Catholic, I love, I love my religion. I love because I think, I think people who have religion are predominantly good people. Right, I know it's a very polarized subject in today's world, in politics, but you know, most of the people I know that have faith are really good people and I draw so much strength from my faith and from the faithful people around me that are praying for me and I'm praying for you. And you know, some people say, oh, it's just the mystery man in the sky, it's hocus pocus, they can say whatever they want. I draw a lot of strength from it and it's very, very humbling. But the one thing I know Gene has realized and I've realized and all my buddies have realized we're not in control. You know, we like to think we are, and I'm not saying that God is pulling puppet strings and like messing with anybody individually. But you know, father Michael Judge, our beautiful chaplain, who died with the troops that morning of 9-11, he was literally killed blessing the guys and girls running in, and I fractured my back. I was in a bad fire truck wreck in 1993. And it ended up they figured out later I had a fracture on my cervical seven and Father Judge actually I was his first major case, he had just become our chaplain and he came up to the trauma center with my mom and my dad and my in-laws and my brother-in-law and he prayed over me as they were putting me in the CAT scan tube and I said, father, I missed mass today. It was Sunday, I'm so sorry. Can someone get me to the chapel in the morning? And I want to do confession and pray. And he goes listen, let's get through this tonight. He says if you try to tell God what you're doing tomorrow, he's going to laugh at you. So just take today. And he put his hands on me and he blessed me and he, she, they put me in the tube. Four days later they cut me loose. They're like, no, you just had like a stinger to your spine. You couldn't move your your limbs. Well, six years later I'm caught in a collapse.
Speaker 1:I go through cat scan a whole bit again and the doctor, the department surgeon, who was a combat surgeon in Iraq and Afghanistan, he's a phenomenal man and he was the chief trauma surgeon down in Kings County Hospital in Brooklyn Bad, you know, really rough place. And he looks at me and he looks at my films. He goes. Can you explain this? So what do you mean? He goes you got a healed in fracture of your cervical seven. You shouldn't, you shouldn't be on this job anymore, you shouldn't be. He goes. I says doc, you know, father judge, right, this doctor's Irish. And he goes. Oh, yeah, my, you know, mike's my buddy. I says told him what happened. He put his hands over me as I was going in a tube and he said don't worry about it, god's in control, you're going to be fine. And I told he goes. He smiled, he ripped up the films, he threw them out and he said go back to work, don't tell nobody. I believe you, he goes. And this is before Michael, father Michael had passed. He said that man's a saint on earth. I said yeah, he is. And I said he's, he's my hero, I love him.
Speaker 1:And when father Mike was killed, we had his service three days later and they put out a teletype and they said look, anybody who can sneak away from the pile. Uh, fortunately, that's what we called the trade center at that point. To please give father judge, you know a procession line. Uh, at his church, he, he was, you know, a procession line, uh, at his church, he he was. He was a franciscan fire friar and uh and his church was right across the street from uh, hook and ladder 24 and engine company one, which is right in midtown just across from madison square garden, and we had a pretty good showing.
Speaker 1:I mean, normally I have thousands and thousands of guys at a funeral, but this day there was only about 200 because everybody was tied up with searching or whatever. And I remember, as they processed him out of the church I sobbed so hard I couldn't. I sobbed like a little child because I lost my priest, my buddy, my inspiration, my spiritual inspiration, and I realized, oh my God, he's the first of hundreds and hundreds of funerals and it just set in. It took that three or four days for everything to literally set in. And I remember walking away from there going, oh man, we're in a lot of trouble, and it just never stopped.
Speaker 1:It was just funeral after funeral after funeral, and many of the funerals they didn't even have the remains of our guy. They just, the family, wanted some sort of closure. And then, you know the cruelty was, sometimes months later they would find some remains of that individual and then have another service. So some of these families went through it a couple of times and it was just for them, it was torture. But you know when you stand for that many and you know I'm not a guy who's scared to show my emotions, I'm a big guy. But I mean I know my wife calls me a big baby. But I hear amazing grace now in the bagpipes and I have to close my eyes because I'll break apart.
Speaker 1:And I was just over in Normandy. I had the honor and the privilege I hate that privilege word, but I was privileged to escort four World War II veterans back home to Normandy, as they call it home, and they're 100 years old, and we got a private tour or say escort to the headstones of their colleagues who were killed that morning, d-day and these gentlemen hadn't been back in 80 years and to watch them and to watch how they just stood there with such respect, getting out of their wheelchairs to salute their comrade. And then you hear those bagpipes and I had to walk a couple yards away and just I didn't want to, I don't want to disrespect them and get emotional in front of them and, and you know, throw them off balance and it just washed back over me. It was like, oh my god, like how are these guys after 80 years keeping it together, knowing the horror of that day? And one of the gentlemen, he.
Speaker 1:We walked them down to the beach, then to Omaha Beach, and it was actually beautiful. It was people riding horses and little kids playing in the surf and flying kites. And he looked at me and he smiled and he goes wow, it's a lot prettier today than it was back then. And I didn't know what to say to him. But I knew that he was brought back 80 years instantly and it's incredible how certain sights or sounds or smells can bring you back to a place. And you know that's the bagpipes. Now, for me it's. You know, unfortunately there's still funerals, but that's the eternal reminder of the sacrifice. You know, because every time I know it's the same in the military. You know someone's processed in or out. You know you've got the pipes and they're playing amazing grace and it's. You know it's a beautiful song, but I tell you what you know.
Speaker 2:That's where the inspirer part comes. Now you could tell that story and you can keep telling these stories. And now you're telling the stories of others as well. You know, when you did that podcast, I mean that the podcast should be a book, because 20 stories is 20 stories yeah, when you're talking about generations that don't understand. Generations don't understand because a lot of times they don't have the knowledge. They're getting sound bites, they're getting clips. They're getting 60 second clips about, yeah, the reality of 9-11. But you're continuing to tell your story. But now your story is going to be told by your next generation, like your kids. Your kids are going to tell their dad's story, just like you tell the story of your dad to your friends and family and everybody else. You could find. That's where it comes. That's where the inspirer comes. I'm going to get you a T-shirt that's where it comes.
Speaker 2:That's where the inspirer comes. I'm going to get you a t-shirt. It's going to say inspirer.
Speaker 1:You're going to wear it all the time. It's true. I mean, I got to hit the treadmill so I can fit into the double XL. I appreciate it. No, you know, it's true. Like I just, I just talked about this one of my, actually the other night, one of my dear friends.
Speaker 1:He never opened up 23 years until until it was actually last night. We talked two nights in a row and the first firefighter who died that day was Daniel. Sir Danny was a mentioned 216, big guy from the fire department football team and he was killed by a jumper and he was crushed. So, as my friend was my friend Chris, they were heading into the tower, they got diverted to retrieve Danny and get him to an ambulance and he never told me the specifics. I knew he did, I knew what he did that day, but he never said a word about it and he just started talking to me about it and he goes. I got to talk to you about this. I got to tell you this I've never let it go. I need to let it go.
Speaker 1:And it was harrowing because his perspective and experience mine was completely different. I got there after the towers had dropped. He got there as they were incinerating and smoking stopped. He got there as they were incinerating and smoking. Yeah, I mean he, you know people were jumping beside him and and to hear him descriptively talk about what he saw, what he, and I couldn't believe. It was just so powerful. It was like sitting at a in a movie theater where, like the most intriguing, and you're just you can't believe what's coming next. And I said to him, I said he goes, I don't, I don't like to talk about it. I says, but it's, your story is so powerful. And I said people need to hear it. And of course I would never tell his story without him being right there or approving of it. But I said there's no shame in its graphic, it's horrible, but people need to know it.
Speaker 1:And you know we talked about the documentary that was done I think it was Nat Geo when they did a series and a lot of it was branched off of that film that was being actually done the day of 11, and they followed that crew and in that documentary you see the people jumping and you hear the bodies landing and literally exploding. And that's unfortunately what killed Danny is. He got hit by a body traveling 110 stories down at 120, some odd miles an hour. And I remember in the beginning they used to show those videos of the desperation of those people who would choose to jump over burning to death. And you think about it like you're up that high it's, it's a complete death sentence, no matter which choice you make. And I remember seeing it broke my heart when I saw it and I realized like humans will fight for survival as hard as they can. And a couple of people jumped out of those windows holding umbrellas and garbage bags and, you know, sheets or whatever it was, in the hopes that it was going to slow them down and they would survive, in the hopes that it was going to slow them down and they would survive. And I'm sure, I'm sure in the back of their mind they kind of knew it was, it was fruitless, but they still tried. And you know what I get upset at is that's considered offensive material and that's considered triggering. And I and I hate to say it, but people need to be triggered, that they need to be offended, because this is what happened and and you know there's a lot of people in politics and in the media and are trying to gloss it over with some, you know, with some cake frosting and make it palatable. You know, palatable, like, like you could. It's, it's, it's not as bad as you think, just taste it. No, it's horrible, but they won't show it.
Speaker 1:And I was blessed to do a lesson for a school in Florida a friend of mine's wife and initially I thought it was going to be 20 children and I walked into the auditorium it was 250. And I almost crapped on my pants because I'm saying, well, kids could be tough. And I was amazed. I mean, these kids were between 8 and 10, and they were amazing. They were so inquisitive and so many questions and they didn't hold back. It was just they wanted an honest answer. And I was blown away because I thought honestly, like they would just be sitting there going, yeah, all right, when's this old guy going to get out of here? You know, and I was there for a couple hours, it was, it was unbelievable. And I and one of the young kids wanted my hat and I said I'm sorry I you know, if I gave it to him, now I'm going to start a war.
Speaker 2:You know, but anyway.
Speaker 1:I said I'm sorry, I you know, but and and you know this was this was the most powerful I've experienced there was a little blind boy in the group and I had my ball cap on, but I had my duty hat, my dress uniform cap. I initially wore that in and inside of it is a picture of my friend John, his mask card. So I talked about my friend John and I said I was explaining to them how much joy people get when someone does something kind for them. So I said can you tell me an example of kindness? And so the kids are saying you know, saying hello to someone, wishing them a nice day, holding the door for them or whatever. I said yes. I said I call that doing a Johnny. I said my friend was Johnny and he was always smiling. So I try to every day do some Johnny's for people to put a smile on their face.
Speaker 1:Tip the guy pumping my gas. You know New Jersey is the only state in the country you got to have someone pump. I live in Florida. Most of the time I pump my own. But you know you give the guy a five dollar tip and say, hey, have a great day, and they just break into a smile. So, guys, do me a favor and do a little, johnny.
Speaker 1:Well, this little blind boy comes up to me at the end of the the presentation with his aid, and he had verbal issues as well, but I can fully understand. So he said can I see your friend? I'd like to see your friend, john. So I held my hat, he put his hand on John's picture and upon his hand, touching John, he burst into the biggest smile. But he couldn't see and I was blown away by that and he hugged me and said thank you. And I'm just saying to myself this little boy, did you know so much for me? And he didn't even, he didn't even know it. You know, and that's what really just crushes my heart is that we've become such an in-your-face, cold-hearted society. You know, and you look at all these angry, especially young people, like there's so much anger out there and you know I could sort of understand some of it, but it's just sad because they're they're too young to be angry.
Speaker 2:You know when you're well, they't, and that's the great thing about being I'm going to be cheesy, but inspiring you inspired a little kid and he could be blind, but it doesn't matter. Yeah, and he inspired you and it's contagious.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, and that's the thing about the hateful rhetoric we see all the time. And that's one thing bad about social media. A lot of people understand our country has been decisive, divisive, for more years than this country's been around. I guarantee you it was this way in the 1700s, 1800s, 1900s, the 1960s. I were horrible.
Speaker 2:The 70s were horrible yes a lot of times people don't realize it because there wasn't social media. The one positive about social media and about like podcasts and everything else nowadays is getting information out there, and that's one of the last things I want to talk to you about today. Was you know that I'm going to mess up this ring finan ring finan garden of remembrance in kinsale?
Speaker 1:ireland. Yes, that's, that's in irish right it's it's um ring finan is is the little village of it's outside of Kinsale, ireland. Yeah, and if people who know Ireland, it's in the south and historically it's actually right where the USS Lusitania was sunk by the Germans in 1917. It's like right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll read this out. Beyond the fire engine red gates, in a remote area of Kinsale Kinsale, kinsale, oh man, where it's lies a beautiful garden of 343 trees set in a breathtaking view of the Irish countryside. The garden is dedicated to the firefighters and chaplain that died on September 11th 2001. As he walked down a neatly planted Rose, you will be touched by each and every tree, each one adorned with the firefighter's name and personal memorabilia left behind by family, friends and complete strangers. Even more unique to this story is how the memorial came to be. It's a story of Kathleen Kate Murphy. Murphy, originally from Kinsale, moved to New York City and worked as a nurse for over 30 years. During that time, she became friends with many of the FDNY firefighters, including their chaplain, father Michael Judge, who was devastated by their loss. So yeah, man, I'm excited to hear about this and how, you know, people can support that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, she, that beautiful lady. She decided to donate her land there she was going to build her retirement home on and she had 343 individual trees planted with a nameplate for each of our guys. That was killed and unfortunately she didn't live long enough to see it come to completion. She died of cancer herself. I believe it was in 2002 or three when it was completed. So basically it's, it's tended. You know I forget the gentleman's name and shame on me, but as one gentleman who lives just right there on the road who takes care of it, and then the local firefighters from Kinsale and then Cork city, which is about 20 miles away, they, they volunteer themselves to take care of it.
Speaker 1:But now it's a beautiful place. It's almost a small version, a nature version of Arlington. Instead of the tombstones you have the trees for each sky, and I was there back in May my mom's from Ireland and I still get over there as much as I can to see my uncles and aunts and cousins and I stopped to the garden and I was there for hours and I just was captivated because it's such a beautiful place, it's so quiet and the wind almost makes a song. It sounds crazy, but but you know, through the trees and it's, it's just beautiful and I literally sat aside my friend John's tree and just leaning on it and praying, talking to him, and so you know so many guys that I knew my friends and it was so powerful and it was some people, probably quite a few people, I'd say.
Speaker 1:Over the course of three hours a dozen people came in, but I mean, it's middle countryside and they look at me and they say I'm so sorry for your loss. And I guess they assumed I had the hat on and that I'm one of the guys and I said thank you, I said do you have a loved one here? And they said, oh no, we just live nearby. But we like to compare our respects to, as they call them, the American lads who gave everything for people that day and they gave their lives. And it was incredible, it was the same sentiment from all of these different people. A dozen different people I encountered and they were so grateful and I'm saying but they're not even American, you know they're Irish. But there's such a strong connection between Ireland and America from immigration and you know our department, years and years ago it was such an undesired job that the only ones who would take it were immigrants. So most of the guys Irish, italian or German, so they have that bond and it was beautiful, just the things they were saying.
Speaker 1:I was so blown away. But what hit my heart was, you know, some of the trees have been damaged from it's very windy there, from storms. You know they get these ocean hurricanes that come in sometimes, so some of the trees have been knocked down, some of the nameplates are gone, either blown away or maybe some loved one just took it. And I said to myself God, I'd really love to try to get some people to get behind this and restore this place to exactly what it was and maybe get little permanent, uh, marble nameplates, markers and and my dream of it would be to get a friend of mine who I was just speaking of the fireman. He has a neighbor who's a professional sculptor. He's a well-known sculptor in that world. I would love to get a statue of father judge just kind of watching over the guys, guys, because he used to call us his guys. So you know I'm getting inspired by having been there and you know I'm actually headed back to Ireland again soon.
Speaker 1:One of my best buddies that while we were searching on the pile. He said to me promise me, we'll get ireland one day and hike. And this is my buddy huey, who's a crazy interesting guy. I love him to death. He's a genius and he got cancer in 2008 and he got retired off and he became a veterinarian. So but now he's he's ready to pack it in because he's tired, so calls me up and he listen, don't do anything on the 20th, but we're going to Ireland to go hiking. I'm like, oh shoot, I was just there. But I'm like, hey, I'll go to Ireland, man, no problem, there you go.
Speaker 1:So we're going to hit the garden, we're going to get down there and pray to our buddies and pray for our buddies, but yeah, so I'm getting, I guess, inspired. I want to try to get some people behind this and I'm hoping Dennis Leary, with his foundation maybe get involved and, uh, you know Dennis's family's from Ireland and, uh, his cousins were firefighters Irish firefighters that were killed in Worcester, massachusetts in 1999, his cousin and his best friend, so he has a really strong attachment to it. Um, yeah, so if anybody is, is any of your listeners? Get to Ireland, definitely, stop by to go on a remembrance. It's a, it's a special place in the world.
Speaker 2:Well, brother, I appreciate you and I appreciate you coming on a show. We're going to have to have another episode. This is officially the longest protectors that I've ever had, but I'm sorry, Like I said, my wife there's so much more I need to talk about with you too.
Speaker 1:And you know, jason, that's a dying art in this world. Is conversation right? You know, and I'll leave you on this, but my kids always say it to me dad, you talk to everybody. I said I do. I've learned so much from people, especially older folks. Older folks all have a story right. They all have a canvas and a book and it's incredible, some of them, and no one stops to ask them and I, I love them. I mean, I learned so much from older folks. It's so yeah, so I'd love to come back and just you know, whatever it is you want to cover, man, but it's just good to speak to another human being. That gets it. You know, and I call it the army of good guys, and we're trying to increase our troop level by the day, so hopefully we can do that Absolutely.
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