The Protectors® with Jason Piccolo
The original The Protectors® podcast, established in 2019, is about resilience, reinvention, and the moments that change the direction of our lives.
Hosted by retired federal agent, U.S. Army veteran (OIF 2006), author, and interviewer Dr. Jason Piccolo, the show explores what happens after service, success, failure, burnout, loss, transition, and personal transformation.
Through conversations with veterans, leaders, athletes, entrepreneurs, and everyday people who chose a new path, The Protectors® focuses on growth, identity, purpose, and the courage to move forward.
Jason also interviews both bestselling and independent authors, exploring the creative process, the writing journey, the challenges of publishing, and the stories behind the books. From debut novels to works by New York Times bestselling authors, these conversations offer insights into storytelling, perseverance, and success.
These are conversations about second chapters, hard-earned wisdom, and finding meaning after life changes course.
Whether you’re rebuilding, redefining yourself, chasing something new, launching a new venture, writing your first book, or simply trying to move forward, The Protectors® is about navigating change with resilience and purpose.
The Protectors® with Jason Piccolo
531 | Marcus Torgerson | *Sensitive Topic
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Marcus Torgerson joined the show to discuss his new book. We also talk about faith and moving forward. *We do discuss suicide.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Welcome to the Protectors Podcast
Speaker 1Hey , welcome to the Protectors Podcast . My good friend , marcus Torgerson , is back on the show today . You know , before we hit record , we actually , you know , stop for a second to pray . You know , before we hit record , we actually , you know , stop for a second to pray . And you know , marcus , it seems like we always avoid that topic when we get into , you know , podcasts and promotion and marketing and trying to talk to this everyday people . But religion and faith is huge . Right , it's the biggest thing , you know . It is everyday people , but religion and faith is huge . Right , it's the biggest thing , you know .
Speaker 2It is . And that first word , that first word that causes everybody , everybody , including people who rock and roll with Jesus , to twitch a little bit , is that word religion , because it's religion's actual meaning is being bonded . And man , I , just man , I have a relationship with Jesus . Right Like , if you like Jesus or you don't have a relationship , whatever that's on you , man , right Like , my job is to be a seed planter . I'm just supposed to sit there and be a seed planter and walk my faith . And if you dig it cool , if you don't cool Either way , I'm still going to love you right . And if you dig it cool , if you don't cool Either way , I'm still going to love you Right Like . It's not . It shouldn't be condemnation and beating you with a Bible Like that's man , that's garbage , that's old school way of doing things . Don't work that way , no more . Just open up to Jesus , man .
Speaker 1You know it's a very cursory overview of it and we're going to get into it now because I want to breach this topic . I want to talk about this topic . I want this to be a focus for people to talk about , because finding your faith is sometimes . It's easy to some people . You find it when you're in your absolute worst , but sometimes it goes away . Sometimes you've had it for years , sometimes you grew up with it . Sometimes it was just something you did . You went to church on Sunday . Sometimes you were just like , hey , you know what , I'm born again , I'm Catholic , I'm this , I'm that , I'm Muslim or anything . You have your faith but then you lose it and it's tough . Sometimes you have to go completely to the absolute pit of despair before you find it again .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . Well , like the what's that old saying ? There's no atheists and foxholes ? Right , like , yeah now . But and I and I can see why people , especially people who grew up with it Like I didn't grow up with with any kind of religion .
Speaker 2If anything , it was very non-religious in my upbringing and the people I've talked to who have been raised with religion , of course they're going to have a challenge because they're being preached one thing , but then when they're at home , you know everyone's got their best behavior on Sunday , but after service over , all of a sudden you're cussing , drinking , beating your wife , you're doing all these things . So the hypocrisy in religion is going to cause people to have a question about what's this God guy , what's all Jesus about ? And if there's one thing anybody gets out of this , I just need it to be clear that your faith is your lifestyle , how you live your life . Right . If you're a douchebag , don't be calling on the fact that you rock and roll with Jesus when you're a piece of shenanigans .
Speaker 2Now , the beautiful part is and this is you know , I'm a human being . I try not to judge how we act
Faith vs. Religion: The Relationship with Jesus
Speaker 2. There will be payment for that when we're dead and buried . All I can do while I'm here now is try my best to walk in Jesus's path that he's laid out for me , and just be the best human being I can be . You know what I do for a living . I got to teach good people to do bad things to bad people . Is there a conflict ? No , because everybody who is somebody who follows Jesus . You got to be a warrior man . You got to be able to stand up against evil , because it's everywhere .
Speaker 1It is absolutely everywhere , Unfortunately . You know what there has been evil in the church . We're not going to get to that today because , man , you can just Google it . You can Google it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , because human beings human beings doing I mean our whole history of mankind , men and women doing bad things in the name of God . Hey , man , they've got a special place , God's going to deal with them , Not my job . They got a special place , God's going to deal with them .
Speaker 1Not my job . That's what man I . You know I'm struggling with this so bad lately because I am embracing my faith again . I had to have hit rock bottom in order to do this and that's fine , but I've clawed my way out of that abyss . You know , it's been a while now . I'm on this positive upstreak . I am in a good place right now . I'm pushing forward . But while I'm doing that , I want to embrace my faith again . I want to and I'm doing it . But the problem is when you do it . I still have that old school familiarity where I need to embrace a church in order to embrace a faith , and I've had an issue . I remember one of my friends told me the story they were a police officer at one time and about a church and how the church wanted security there and they wanted the cops to come because this guy showed up and he was disheveled .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1You know , we've all felt that way . I mean , like we I mentioned about three minutes ago a lot of times when you want to feel your faith again . You need your faith , you need the belief in that higher power . You're not at your best point in your life . You could be homeless , you could be close to being homeless , you could be addicted to drugs . And when you go to a place of a quote-unquote worship and you're judged by your appearance , yeah , it should be . Listen , you're you already mentioned it you're your best behavior for that two , three hours on sunday , yeah . So embrace the people that come to the door like , granted , hey , you know what they have mental illness and there's nothing you can do about it . That's different . But if there's someone that is clearly there to be witnessed , just embrace them . That is your responsibility .
Speaker 2Yes , yeah , it's biblical , it's scriptural . Jesus said we're there for the sinner , not for those that are saved . We're supposed to be a hospital . We're supposed to be welcoming , not sitting in the back , treating them like dirt , not doing it for likes and public approval . Get rid of all that and do what you're supposed to be doing in Jesus's loving , caring ways .
Speaker 1There . I don't want to discount church , I don't , because there are some good ones out there and you know around .
Speaker 1So I'm like around here , I'm like , well , you know I really don't know a lot of religious people and my daughter and I both want to go back to church . You know it's kind of our . You know we've , and my son , I think he's going to go with us . But but I reach out to one of my friends and I'm like , hey , I know , you know you pray a lot and you know where do you go to church . And they're like , well , you know , I don't really I haven't found a church here and I'm outside of DC . And they're like so I have , they have a Bible study every Wednesday and they , you know , for an hour .
Speaker 1So you know , you could build your place of worship at your kitchen table , of course , on your couch , and I'm almost leaning that way . But my problem is this is I have been away from it for so long that it's tough to get that foothold and foothold is my word of the day . You know that because you watch my video but it's tough for me to get my foothold back into it . So that's one thing I wanted to talk to you about is because you haven't always been this way . You haven't always been a believer . You've been a sinner . We all are . How did , when did you get to that point where you're like I need this and it couldn't have just been . I mean , yeah , it could have been one day , but I don't think it was with you .
Speaker 2No , you , no . Well , so the the . The abbreviated version is because otherwise we'd be here all day we can be here all day .
Speaker 1Marcus , honestly , well , I don't want the abbreviated , I want to know , because I want people to understand this I was .
Speaker 2I was married for the second time and when my my wife wanted to divorce , um , I , I was ashamed and embarrassed and I , I ran away . I was like that's it . And a mutual friend of ours , ben skillset magazine . He was like dude , just come to arizona , come to arizona . And so I put all my stuff in storage , grab some stuff and I flew out to arizona just to run away from texas , to run away from the shame and embarrassment . And looking back , you know , zooming out , I can see , okay , I was already , I was already being there . Many seeds had been planted in the in my lifetime . I can see it .
Speaker 2And and man , I hated God . I was angry , angry at god . I cussed god out for decades and he would still put these people in my life during this time . I was in texas , even when I was in israel . Actually , even when I was israel , he was still planting seeds . And uh , rick hogg , good friend of ours , right , he , on a phone call with me , started to really talk to me about forgiveness because I , just I held on to something shitty I did for 20-something years and I wouldn't let it go and it would just destroy me and just plus working for the enemy for so many years and just I just was lost . So when I went to Arizona , god really did take that as an opportunity to have me alone . He isolated me right , kept me alone , and he would just my . My eyes were
Marcus's Faith Journey: From Darkness to Light
Speaker 2opening , my heart was opening .
Speaker 2And then , in 2021 , I went out there in 2019 , 2021 , a good friend of mine uh , the louis family they're . They've been with me since he one of the guys , her son oh , I need to slow down a moment . The louis family is a jay and wendy husband , father , mother and father and they have a son named john thomas , and he was working for me and my wife at the time at our Krav Maga school in Texas . And then he went off and started to preach , as his father is a preacher , and he said , hey , we're going to be in Arizona because they were traveling and evangelizing . And he went and they met up with me and he said I got some bad news . He said my mom passed away .
Speaker 2Now , like you , death is not . I'm not a a stranger to death . I have a very pragmatic view of death , but that one jay , it , it , it gutted me . It gutted me and the very first thought that came my head is oh shit , I'm not gonna see her , she's in heaven , I won't see her . And immediately that was like the very first thought . And as we were talking and crying , we spent several hours together . The only thing I thought about , the only thing I knew , was I need to get baptized . I didn't know anything from nothing . I just had been told well , you get dunked and then you get to go to heaven . So I got home , I got on the phone , I called her husband , wendy's husband , jay . I said hey , uh , if you're not going anywhere , like he just burying his wife , where's he going to go ? You know ? So he . I said hey , I want to come out now .
Speaker 2Here's where it's a little fuzzy I can't remember if I was like , can you dunk me ? Or if I was like planning to get there and then dunk me . It's irrelevant . Bottom line is it's December . I don't even remember the date . For those of you who are watching , if you're interested , go to my Instagram . My dunking is pinned . You'll see a blue shirt and he dunks me and I didn't have an aha moment . I didn't have coming out of the water and being like , oh , he'd already been working on me and then he just was working on me more and my heart was open to him . And the minute my heart was open to him , the transformations that he's been doing and has done are remarkable because you knew me before I got dumped .
Speaker 1Yeah , right , yeah , it's crazy , though . I actually have known you for a long time now and I've I've noticed a transformation and I've noticed it's this humbleness , and you know , you know writing the book we'll get into the book later on but it's tough to to be in this game and , um , you know , you want to have businesses , you want to do this , you want to do that , but then the other aspects that you want to be genuine and that genuine , and that's why , you know , I , I would be remiss if I didn't want to talk about , you know that , that feeling of being baptized , if the , that acceptance of jesus , I , you know , I man , I don't even know if I told this story in a long time , but I remember it . I , I didn't have the greatest childhood in the world and I don't blame anybody except myself , you . We go through that problem where we want to blame everybody but ourself . And you know , I think I was around 16 , 15 or 16 is . I had a girlfriend at the time and I was going through some rough stuff man .
Speaker 1I got kicked out of my house . I was just , really just in a bad place , partying all the time and trying to find something to quench this devil that was in my mind , the pain and depression , and trying to find everything I could do . And I remember her parents were youth pastors at the time and I remember I prayed for forgiveness and took Jesus in my heart . And I remember that night I had this dream , the most lucid dream I ever had , about being in hell . I mean , to this day I've never had a dream that was so clear that this was really me in hell and that I wasn't going to hell anymore me in hell and that I wasn't going to hell anymore . But then the problem is , you know , you have these years and years in between then and now . Where you lose , you lose that , and I think a lot of times we lose our faith is because we lose faith in ourselves . First you lose faith in humanity , and then you , then , I think , you lose faith in yourself and then you don't feel like you're worthy .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , always .
Speaker 1And it and that's the thing is you always , and up to this point , up until a few months ago , I didn't think I was worthy enough to to be part of anything anymore . But we're not With faith , yeah .
Speaker 2That's why we have Jesus . Jesus is what makes us worthy . I don't even know if that's , but with all the shit that we feel , it's Jesus that does that . We on our own suck Right yeah . Right yeah we do Believe me , I know .
Speaker 1Right yeah , Right yeah . We do Believe me , I know Right .
Speaker 2And see when people are listening to this . I need , I feel I want to make sure that the people who are feeling this because you've had some revelation and you're opening back up to Jesus , some revelation and you're opening back up to Jesus I want everyone who is for , the people who have given their life to Jesus , first to remember that . You know , we hold on to the right hand of God , right , the righteousness of God . We hold on to it , right , but this is really what's going on . Our hands are like this and his hand never lets go .
Speaker 2So all those times that you've been any , all of us have felt like we're wishy-washy , we're far away , we're distant and we're . He's holding on to us the whole time and the people who are listening to this were like , well , I'm not safe , so what about me ? I can say from personal experience his arms are already open . They've been there . You're in tight from the minute you were conceived before , before you were conceived , he already loved you . His hands were open and all he wanted you to do is say , hey , I want a relationship with you , and then those hands hug you and then he holds on to you for the rest of your life .
Speaker 2You can't get rid of them . You can't , likeesus can't love me any more than he already does . He loves me perfectly . All I need to do is embrace it , and that means , as you have done and many of us have done , is to just be like yeah , I fucked that one up , didn't I lord ? I just dropped the ball . Yep , you did . No , let's go . I'm picking you up with my hand and let's walk . I use the children analogy perfectly , because you've got your son and daughter correct .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm .
Speaker 2Okay , let's zoom back to when they were toddlers , right , they did their first step . You were like yaha , and then they faceplanted and you're like , okay , now , when they face planted , did you sit there and go ? You loser ? Oh , my God , I can't believe how much of a failure and disappointment you are to me . Get up on like you did Right , and we joke about it because we do it . So if we wouldn't do that to our children , why do you think that God's going to do that to us ? He would never get up . I got you . How many times have you held onto your child's shirt , right ? Because you knew for sure they were going to have some kind of disaster , and they held on to her . What do you think that God does to us ? Same thing .
Speaker 1I'm doing it now . Still , they're almost 17 and 15 . Yeah , and the reason I brought this up , the reason I wanted to talk about it today , was because one of the posts I did this morning was about stress , and you know a lot of the stress and a lot of the setbacks we've had in our life . A lot of times we always talk about the physical setbacks . Like me , I push myself more than I've ever pushed myself in my life . Now , at 52 years old , I mean , I , I , if I get a day off of the gym , I feel I need it , I need to be there , I need , I need , I'm on this multiple attack of my mind right now and my body , because I'm , I'm becoming the best version , something that I don't feel like I could have before , and a lot of that has to do with a lot of personal things going on or that actually have gone on with my life . I'm past them now and now I'm , I'm moving into this different phase of my life and I've had some .
Speaker 1You know I was getting to the point where I was walking , like you know , five , six miles at a time , or , on a weekend's , 10 miles , and my body , like the other day , my ankle was just like . You know . You can't really be doing this anymore , jay . You need to take a break , and I did so . I just did an alternative method where I just got on a bike , where it's no impact . So what I did was I reshifted and I refocused .
Speaker 1But one thing about this , this set , this phase of my life is I'm doing different is I'm not just attacking my body , I'm not just looking at my health . I'm not looking at my diet and what I'm putting into it and my physicality , I'm looking at my mind . To me , that's meditation . In the morning I've been slack and I should be meditating at night . It's , it's therapy , and now it's it's also embracing my faith . So why I wanted to talk to that , to you , about that today , is to show the people that you could actually have these conversations Right , and it doesn't have to be about Christianity , it can be about anything you want . Yeah , embrace something because this stress man . Embrace something because this stress man , the stress setbacks , I think , are one of the toughest ones . And listen , there's a difference between stress and depression yeah , believe me and anxiety
Dealing with Stress: A Different Perspective
Speaker 1. You know stress and anxiety kind of hand in hand , but depression is that's another animal we can get into it another day .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Cause I , man , I've been fighting that beast for about 40 years . But that Because , man , I've been fighting that beast for about 40 years . But the stress is something that it could set you back physically , Because what happens is you get really stressed out and you can't get to the things that you need to be doing . Right , right .
Speaker 2Well , so I do have a bit of an opinion about stress , and later on I'll get into because the last three days have been the epitome of stress . So I look at stress now and there's stoics and you've got all these people that and I'm not mocking them there's people that yearn for a certain type of mental fortitude . I would challenge you or encourage you , to , whomever it is , when you're like I'm stressed man , I can't do this to , because it's fear-based , right , I can't , I'm , oh , my goodness , I'm going to fail and , as a if , if , instead of that fear , quite honestly laugh , smile and say thank you for this stress , thank you , thank you for this opportunity to test me in what I really need to do and work and what's important , like the video , the guy that you know you said the guy couldn't go and work out . He's . Thank you for this opportunity . You know what I couldn't get to do ? That workout , but I can do 50 burpees , right , I can do this , and really all we're doing is in stress .
Speaker 2If we look at stress and it's fear , fear . All we're doing is giving a single finger salute to that fear , fear . All we need , all we're doing , is giving a single finger salute to that fear , that stress is literally nothing more than an opportunity , truthfully an opportunity . This isn't , no , you know , robbins . What's the guy ? Ted Robbins , or ?
Speaker 1Tim Robbins yeah .
Speaker 2Tim Robbins . I'm not Tim Robbins , you know God bless him and his six foot eight butt but it really is when we look at our stresses and go , wow , this is my opportunity to see where I'm really , where my , my , my blind spots are , and embrace them . The problem is we are conditioned from birth . Our parents everybody talks about well , you're stressed , it's really bad . Or oh , the old woe is me and and guilt and shame and condemnation and fear and it's really bad .
Speaker 1Or oh , woe is me and guilt and shame and condemnation and fear .
Speaker 2It's all garbage , it's all a lie .
Speaker 2Stress is a lie in the fear . Stress is an opportunity to embrace everything that's going on with you . I can promise you this that when somebody is getting stressed or anxious , right that anxious feeling , and even the people who don't have any relationship with Jesus , even though the people with Jesus , end up having more anxiousness , which really frustrates me because we're supposed to give it to him . Hey , you know what ? I'm feeling ? Like a bag of dirt and I'm super nervous . I'm super nervous . I'm freaking out . Lord , take it , it's yours . You didn't give me this . It is not from you , and if it ain't from you , I'm giving it back to you . Okay , let's keep the people who are believers in one section . Please embrace that . And if you're not a believer , you know what that anxiousness ? It's a lie . It is a lie Because it's rooted in fear . Anything rooted in fear is a lie . And the minute you can say , well , I'm scared , that's a lie . I'm not diminishing how you feel . Right , how you feel is authentic , that is . That is how you're feeling . The anxiety inside of you is a true feeling when you welcome it and take it as it is . Yeah , you're going to be overwritten . You're going to be in a fetal position . The sky is falling as opposed to . I'm feeling this . Okay , all right , what do we got going on here ?
Speaker 2Your book launch didn't go the way you wanted to . You burnt all the dinner that you were supposed to be cooking for your ever-loving . You didn't meet your metric , your quota of whatever you're supposed to do . Hold on a minute . First of all , how important is all this stuff ? Now ? If you have children , if they're now , I'm not it's important that we say this your children are ill or your loved one is ill . Please don't mesh them together . There's a time and a place for everything , but in our general lifetime , things crap . We got going on . It's not that big a deal . It never will be that big a deal , and the easiest way to make it not a big deal is to look at it face on and be like whatever .
Speaker 2And workouts are and I use workouts because there are people who , when life stresses them out , our first thing we let go of is usually something that would be positive for us , and that's where fear loves to well . You shouldn't work out because you've got to do that . Your TPS report is due , right ? It's all garbage . It's all a lie . If you're not , just hear me out , just hear me . Marcus Aurelius , I believe , said smile in the face of adversity , right , I like that saying , because it basically gives a single-finger salute to fear . Because it's a liar , just a big fat , stupid liar , and it can kick rocks . There you go . Thanks for coming to my TED Talk .
Speaker 1Now that's where the wins come in . I'd like that you mention that the first thing people always do is they put the workout . The workout could be 10 minutes , 20 minutes , 30 minutes . You're doom scrolling for 30 , 40 minutes a day on social media Easily , and if you're stressed out , that win can be just hitting the gym . Not even hitting the gym , but just getting outside . I like to tie it on the walking thing .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1It could be doing the burpees , it could be do anything .
Speaker 2Anything you're physically able to do .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely , and it and you can do it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Uh , you gotta get the winds in , man . Yeah , cause I tell you the the wins will help with the anxiety and the stress .
Speaker 2Huge , huge .
Speaker 1And what you put in your body too .
Speaker 2Well , and this is , you know , the more you start to do . I know they say that you can't outwork out your diet , but for the normal people that are listening to this , who aren't , you know , influencers and all that stuff , let's say you're eating just crappy . Okay , you're just you're eating crappy . Crappy can be relative to whatever you think it is . You will just oh , there we go .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Um , you will . You will start , uh , just through transformations that you're going through , you'll start eating better . The same as with
Mental Health, Depression, and Suicide
Speaker 2what you're reading , what you're watching . You start to feel better about who you are . You're less likely to take in outside things that you go inside of you because you're like I don't need to be seeing this , I don't need to be eating this , I don't need six Krispy Kreme donuts , I'll have one .
Speaker 2Because moderation is important . It's important to have some stuff that you know is not that good for you . Well , a little bit , what's that ? A little bit right . And I just think that the ratio of crappy food and good food changes as you start to make your . I feel crappy . I'm working out , working out healthy , scalable exercise . All of a sudden , that goes . Everything starts to change and your friends will change and what you ingest will change . It's just , it starts with a single step . I know that's a cliche , but you know I'm telling the truth . People are people diffuse . Walking they blow it away . You can't walk , you got to do blah , blah , blah . Walking is the single best thing you can do on this planet . There's your time to talk to Jesus . There's your time to meditate . There's your time to just let go of crap Talk . I like putting in earphones and just talking out loud so that people don't think I'm deranged . I have huge talks with Jesus . I'm like yep , I know , I know , or I'll just air out the crap that's inside .
Speaker 1Right , my mental space and that's what really kicked me this week was not . I didn't think I had an outlet . I was like , oh man , what am I going to do ? Because I need my walks . So I hopped on the bike and I was like , gosh , shit , this works , yep , works , just works . Just you know , yeah , the thing is , but you and I , I tout the the walking all the time .
Speaker 1But you mentioned a lot of good things about when you put crap food in your body , it affects your mentally . It affects you mentally , yeah , because you're not getting good enough fuel . And yeah , I haven't always believed me . I've let my body come up and down and yo-yo over the years . But I , I can tell you right now , the most clarity I've had is when I'm putting all these pieces together rather than just being like Because if you can work out as hard as you want , but if you're not fueling it , yeah , if you're not fueling it right , you're not , you're going to be dying out at the end of the workout and in this day and age , you can't use ignorance as an excuse .
Speaker 2The worst thing you can do is google . The best thing you can do is google , right like . You just cannot claim ignorance anymore . You know what to eat . There's 900 gazillion to kabillions trillions of things to do . A lot of times , though , let's be honest , when we're not feeling good about ourselves , who we are inside , the easiest go-to again . We're conditioned , as a human being , to let go of fitness , to let go of our eating , to do destructive things , watch destructive movies , listen to destructive music , be around destructive people when we don't feel like we have any worth .
Speaker 2Yeah that's really , and you do have worth . You have to you do now . I'm not going to blow sunshine up your ass . If you , you know , if you're doing stupid stuff , let's work on that stupid stuff . You're still worthy to be loved . You're still worthy to take care of yourself physically , of course , you are .
Speaker 1And that brings me up to the other point too is you could have all of these personal mechanisms in place . You know you can have the diet , the meditation , the , this , the but you really need a network . You need your friends . Just like you said , when you had that crisis , you were , you know , you're like , oh , moving right to Arizona , boom , you had a network , you had someone to talk to . You make friends and I think that is really one of the biggest things is to have people you could rely on . Yeah , the 3am to the 3am texts and this is a two way streak this is for you to be available to them , because , with you helping other people and a lot of times in the protector community , you always want to help other people so you being on the other end of that 3 am text will actually help you out yeah , yeah , yeah and again I'm gonna .
Speaker 2I I will always go to jesus . Only because of my personal experience , when people are at bottom and you do reach out at 3 am and there's no one there for a variety of reasons , believe me the amount of guilt that men and women have for not being there for people and then they died as if it was their fault .
Speaker 2I , I , I implore you that when you're at that point where you're like three in the morning , I need to reach out . Please , if you're a believer , go to jesus and if you're not a believer , just scream at Jesus , be like look , I need somebody here . And this is where I get frustrated , because the enemy whispers and says you're alone , nobody's there for you . Look , you did your phone call and nobody was there . You should blah , blah , blah , blah , blah , and it's a lie .
Speaker 2I have a universal rule with regards to my friends or acquaintances or whoever who are in places where they're thinking about taking their own life by their own hand . Okay , you didn't get in touch with me . You're not allowed to do anything until we talk , when we talk . If afterwards you still want to go and do the deed , so be it , but you're not allowed to do that deed until we have some type of vocal communication . Now , that hasn't always worked . It hasn't . There's been men and women who have just they just didn't want to do it anymore . And suicide is no joke , and I don't want to diminish again what people are going through , who will always be there 24 hours a day , seven days a week , 365 , anytime , and be there in a loving way , and that's God . That's it . There is no other . Because and I say that only because I don't know how many times you've missed a phone call Okay , I don't know , but if you have , if anybody listening to this has ever missed a phone call , the lie is it's your fault . You could have changed it . And I want to just bear with me for one second .
Speaker 2I had a guy his name is Rupert Englishman hunter just good bloke , right , if you've been around the UK people and I hadn't talked to him for a while and he messaged me . We talked , we phoned , he was all drunk and he was like yep , okay , good . He even posted on Facebook hey , marcus , thanks for saving my life and then 20 minutes later killed himself . I thought we had made it through . Now , whether I talked to him or not talked to him , he was going to do it Shitty , we're not . Our job is just to be the best we can be at that very moment . It's not our job to stop people from hurting themselves . All we can do is try to be a light A light .
Speaker 2So if you're just and I'm saying that because there's somebody right now listening who is at bottom . They are in the dark . There's nothing but nothing , and I pray that if you're listening to this one , you're not alone , which means nothing , because when you're feeling this way , you don't care if there's anybody else . And secondly , to reach out and give grace . It's tough when you want to kill yourself . To show grace to the people you're reaching out to because maybe they're not available and it's not you , they're just going through their own things as well . And then please show yourself some grace that maybe you're supposed to be alive . Maybe the fact that you didn't get the reach out and they weren't there means that you're supposed to talk to them tomorrow . Give it a shot , stay alive . Don't let the enemy win . If nothing else , just stay alive just to piss off the devil .
Speaker 1There's got to be a light . There is , there's got . It doesn't even have to be a light , it has to be something where you could pull yourself out of that darkness man . And you know that the thing about suicide and you know I've talked about my issues in the past is that it's a numbness man . You're already pot committed and you're like , well , hmm , but then all it really does is need you to see something , yep , something to latch onto that keeps you alive .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Yep , and unfortunately not everybody's going to say , oh , you know , god's there for me because at this point you're at your lowest .
Speaker 2Of course , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , no no , no , most of the time , most of the time that believers that kill themselves are doing it because they think that they'll never get to heaven as a result of it . So you know it . I think that when we're at the point where we're wanting to take our own life , we just have to acknowledge the fact that we need something that feels empty , and I am a big believer in just pause for a minute , stop drinking , stop doing what you're doing , stop watching that movie , stop listening to that music , just stop . Go to sleep . When you wake up the next day , breathe and then make a phone call , because the phone calls at three o'clock in the morning and you're drunk . You're never really listening .
Speaker 2Anyways , right , you're not ? Yeah , and and this is is where I don't know how far to go with this , but everything is always better in the morning Go to sleep , wake up with a hangover , check your phone to see how many stupid messages that you should have made , and then reach out to the one person or two people , or three people . And and then reach out to the one person or two people or three people and take a step towards a light . A light , not the light , a light Right .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely , brother . I agree with you there . The morning is like once you get to it , you have the whole day .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah Agreed .
Speaker 1And I don't you know . I'm glad you're on today , because I hate shying away from topics . I , I don't do it anymore . I refuse to do it anymore . I'll talk about anything except politics . I don't like talking about that . Yeah , it's just that is . One thing that we need to talk about , though , is unity . I mean , unity is great , yep , and just you get out of these echo chambers , you know , be positive about life , and yet , believe me , it's tough , and I get into my echo chambers as well , different types , but when you have certain like just when you're always ingesting hate and you're always ingesting the videos and negative videos and depression , it's , that's part of it , man , it's part of the mental health . Is you gotta ? You could put the best food in your body , you can go to the gym all day long , but if you're , you're putting crap into your mind .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's just gonna , you're just gonna be in a dark space yep , and , and the beautiful part about that is it's fixable , super fixable . And you know , sometimes you got to cut people out of your life . Sometimes people are just miserable people and they just all they want to do is talk about , and this is a great , a great barometer is start talking about the world . Be like yeah , you know what , though ? I saw this , we got the blood moon coming up and that's going to be dope .
Speaker 2Yeah , as soon as they start being like negative , just be like look , dude , I love you , but you're in a , you're in a dark place and I've had people crap on me . They're like marcus . Now you're pushing away people just because they're not mr positive , there's a big difference between somebody who is dwelling on something by design , unwilling to listen to anything at all . Yeah , I am going to cut them loose because I'm not the one that's supposed to talk to them . They need to talk to somebody else , and it's somebody else's job who has the fortitude at this point in time to be able to sit there and talk them out of the nonsense that they're thinking . Sometimes it's me , sometimes it's you they're thinking , sometimes it's me , sometimes it's you , sometimes it's somebody over at walmart .
Speaker 1You know , just know that it's not everything is your job yeah , then everything that's a lot of things is uh in our world and a lot of people we know is you take on the responsibility of everybody else . You take on their , their pain , you take on their heartache , you take on everything and you try to save them . You try to save them and you pour everything you have into them and then sometimes it just doesn't
Creativity and Finding Joy in Small Things
Speaker 1work .
Speaker 2It doesn't Well , it doesn't ever work Because you cannot save . I can't , you know you talk to marriages . Now I've been twice divorced , so if either of my ex-wives were to listen to this , I think they'd laugh . But it's not their job to change me , right ? Marcus is this way , marcus is that way . It's not their job . It's my job to be open to the transformation , to to be a better version of myself . Now , obviously , for me I , it's jesus's job to , to , to , to work on the stuff that's inside of me , that this stuff , this brain that gets me into trouble all the time . But it's not your job , as my friend , to sit there and change me and help me , save me from myself . It doesn't work that way . I need to own my shit . It's on me . It's on me . I need to do it .
Speaker 2And there's where I get conflict with other people who are in mental duress . Own your shit . Own it , not I'm a mess up or an F up , right , like , not that , because we're all F ups . Own your share of where you are and then make the small baby steps . You know , you've heard me say baby steps over . That is the best advice ever . Baby steps , man , little itty bitty . Baby steps forward and you drop down . You keep moving forward and those baby steps before you know what . You're 10 miles from from from where you were before , right . Like it's not other people , it's not the world's job to save you .
Speaker 1And that's my advice to myself too is take baby steps . You always want to jump 110% in . There's no 110% , but you want to jump 100% into something because you need to fix right away . You need to fix yourself , your mind , your body , your everything , and then those injuries happen . Then this happens . But if you look at it as a long-term goal and you said you know what ? I am going to take baby steps . Yeah , you know , I , uh , I .
Speaker 1Every time I laugh , every time I think about it , I'm like I start , I'm thinking to myself , I'm like , okay , I'm doing all these different things for my mind . I'm like , what am I doing this ? What can I do ? That's been different . So I'm like I'm looking over on my countertop and I'm like , I , I gotta paint my numbers . So I have , I have my thing . I go to the gym , I come back , I pick one number to paint . Today I think today was 15 I'm doing the , the everglades , because it's gonna be painting , it's gonna go on my wall . And , uh , I'm painting because it , while I'm doing it and trying to pay attention to detail and and it's something new and something different , that it's just a different focus where I'm not just always talking about guns and shooting and this and writing about this and that everything . I'm just doing something that has nothing to do with anything .
Speaker 2Yeah , nothing to do with anything yeah , yeah , I have to say that that the minute that you take baby steps as your lifestyle and not a and I understand there's a lot of people and it could be , you could be a whole anybody that is goal oriented , I must achieve this . To get that and a lot of , especially our military guys , are people are the same way I need to do a and B to get to C and I and I encourage anybody I talk to it's . It's a cliche , don't think about the end goal . Embrace the process , process . Well , all that , all those fancy words saying this is this is your lifestyle . Your lifestyle is going from here to that thing to do that , and then you're going to lifestyle , over to that thing , and just have joy , find joy in getting to whatever that is paint by numbers is brilliant , because you're finding joy that has nothing to do with nothing . There's no joy when you're talking about guns . If it's something you have to do every day .
Speaker 1There's no joy in that .
Speaker 2Right , you have written . If there's no joy in writing , then why bother writing ? Because you have to . No , ixnay , that is not now . It's like cooking . I can't cook for something , man , I burn water . But what I love watching when I see people who have a joy for cooking is there's something that comes out of the food . That is not perfect , it's filled with joy . I'm eating the joy of somebody's doing something and then serving somebody else Again . Serving my big thing is about serving . I want to serve other people and the only way I can serve people is if I serve myself , and serve myself with joy . Joy is the word du jour , man , joy , and you can't fake joy no , and creativity is huge .
Speaker 1And when you , when you talk about cooking and everything , I had a brief stint back in the uh in my 20s where I was like I was like , man , I want to go to cooking school . I can , I really . I love watching the cooking shows and I'm not really a great cook , but I was always like there's something and art about it to where , if you learn the right ingredients and you practice it , that you could be really good at . And I was like I wonder , if I took that step , if I never would have got in a law enforcement , my whole life would have changed , because I mean , it's just so weird , though , like you think about things like that . You have to just find a creative outlet , man . It could be like you know , one time when my kids I think about 15 years ago , not 15 years ago , they were a little bit old , they're not that old yet I think about 10 years ago I started getting them into like wood carving . Oh yeah , you know just little things . I is the only moment that matters , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm going to think about you know , after we finished talking , I'm going to have some to eat . I got some stuff to do , but really this moment has been the blessing . This is the gift , this gift right now , this day , this moment , that's all that matters . Yesterday is stupid . It's over with . It's a dump that we took yesterday , flushed it , it's over with . And tomorrow and I don't know nothing about tomorrow I can try to have tomorrow , but if I don't .
Speaker 1well , that's why I look forward to these conversations nowadays , Cause the podcast at one time was more about it's just , it got into monotony and it wasn't real deep conversations . That's why I did want to talk about Jesus today . I want to talk about God . I want to talk about faith , because not everybody believes in the same God , the same faith . But I wanted to talk about getting out of these zones . Yeah , and I also do want to talk about your book . Be a man . What the fire truck ? Does that even mean ?
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And there's a lot of lessons learned here and you have a lot of lessons learned .
Speaker 2God , yeah , and there's a lot of lessons learned here , and you have a lot of lessons learned , god knows . Yes , yes , yeah , um , somebody when I was promoting this book , and I'll get into everything in just a second but something I'm about to read to you is going to impact you personally probably more than anybody else . Just bear with with me . I am not promoting myself . I am promoting a message that needs to be heard . A guy named Jason , firefighter , believer in Jesus , he wrote a bunch of books and I posted on Facebook something about it and he said his message , full message , was please remember this after you publish it . And then he said those words and they have been so impactful because , for myself , I don't like to talk about my creation , what I did , like I , I just don't very , I'm very concerned about egotistical behavior . And me , me , me .
Speaker 2Now , this book , the book that you're holding , everything from the beginning of how it started to now , whether you want to believe it or not , has been led by God , every single part of it , the title of it , the content , the cover , the people behind the scenes . You know about this book intimately because of our relationship , but what you don't know is your piece of the puzzle . So , for those that don't know , I'm going to tell you just bear with me five seconds . So I write this book . I partially wrote this book and then I got an email from a woman out of nowhere saying hey , I'm a ghostwriter and I'd like to help you with your book . I'm like God , wow , okay , whoa .
Speaker 2Now , the minute that , from the first day she emailed me to after our conversation , it was a span of three days I finished the book and I was like and I just finished the book . And then , you know , she was like okay , it's 80 dollars and 80 cents a word , then I'm gonna edit . And I just I was okay , well , I can't afford that . So I went from my high up , yes , to crash and burn . I'm in a fetal position . Okay , what lord , what do you want me to do ? And after that , literally I'd say a day , maybe not even a day you and I had the conversation and you generously said hey , I got , I got this , don't worry about it , man . All of a sudden , hope which I think is the most important thing anybody gets out of this conversation is we have to have hope , and you instilled hope that this book was supposed to happen Now .
Speaker 2The problem with being generous is you forget that you have 90 million things going on in your life and so it just wasn't , the timing wasn't right for this book and you and helping me and all that , but the hope that you gave me was only from god . It can only be from god . There's no other other example , because a day after , or that same day that you and I had the conversation , we're like I don't think it's going to work A beautiful friend named Kate , we were talking about something else and I brought up the book . And she goes oh , yeah , I've , uh , I used to be an editor for , uh , you know , in my younger years . She goes yeah , just send me the book . Now this is a year , this is a year in the making between starting the book , all the stuff . And then she did , and you know , you saw how I write .
Speaker 2I'm talking on my phone . It's not easy to edit my words into English . So here we are now the book is done . I don't know what to do about a book . I have no idea . I've never published a book before and I remember you're like no , it's super easy , don't worry about it . And then my friends , the ones that met me in Arizona when I was there John Thomas and his wife Brooke Brooke , had written a couple of books . She was was well , I'll walk you through KDP or Amazon or whatever . Yeah ,
The Story Behind "Be a Man" Book
Speaker 2okay , great .
Speaker 2And then and this is , I'm gonna very quickly get into the so this cover . Okay , you see , this cover . Okay , I'm gonna tell you why this cover so awesome . It was done by her husband , john Thomas . He's not a graphic arts designer , he's just a good guy who's talented . And I said , okay , I need this cover . He goes okay . And he comes back with . The first one we did was with Lego . But there's no way Lego would have been okay with WTF on it . There's just no way . So and then he showed me this one .
Speaker 2Now here's what the people I hope those that are listening you're not going to get the impact unless you've got a copy which I hope you have a copy of the book , then you'll understand . But you see , this firetruck . This firetruck is almost identical at least in my memory almost identical to the firetruck . When I was a small boy , I had a book about firetrucks . I've searched for that book my entire life . When he showed me this picture , I almost started crying , sobbing because and he didn't know , how's he going to know , how's he going to know about a book from 1975 ? Okay , I looked up . I said thank you , jesus , thank you Because that was the right guy to do the right cover , the right everything .
Speaker 2Now you know , you saw this , this small print and the , the small print and I'm giving this for anybody who's creative and you have a , all of a sudden , bad things happen . I could have , if it'd been a while ago , I would have had a complete meltdown , broken , everything started drinking . I would have just my world would have fallen apart In the time . From from it printing scene , the , the ant man special that it was and the . I went to Jesus immediately . I went to God and said look , you need to fix this Now , that quick . We have a mutual friend , john from Silver Security , john G . He wrote something when I was panicking . He goes . Awesome , you have special editions now . Immediately , that word flipped it .
Speaker 2I gave everybody the option listen , get a refund off the book . Nobody who's gotten the book wants to refund it because they're part of a group of people that is . Now there's a hashtag B-A-M-W-T-F-T-O-G . You guys are OGs , man , you're part of a slick group and I'm going to go and I'm going to do a little gift to all you guys that got the book . The one beautiful thing is in crisis is opportunity . I think it was . Rf Case said that once he stole it from the Chinese and there was an opportunity One my opportunity to go to my faith and not panic my faith and not panic , and an opportunity to turn what was meant for evil into good . That's one way of looking at it and also a way of god saying hey , by the way , there's a couple things in this book that you didn't do .
Speaker 2I didn't have a copyright page uh , yeah the person that was helping me with book work . She's like , um , by the way , we added a copyright page to the bigger version . I was like , yeah , that's kind of important . All these things that were , oh no , the sky is falling , life is bad . You look back you're like , oh , wow , that's kind of cool . That was actually a really good thing that happened . And if we look back at most of the bad things that have happened in our life , more times than not , there's a there's a really big , bright light of awesomeness that's happened as a result of it . So if you get anything out of this , this podcast , that your nightmare , your bad thing that's happening , chances are that storm . You're going to look back very shortly afterwards and be like , wow , that's awesome well , that's one thing the book's about is your lessons learned .
Speaker 1You know it's pages of what you've learned .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , you know it's funny when people say , well , how are you going to sell this book ? I'm like , easy , You're going to look at the front cover . If you don't like the front cover , I want you to flip it over and read the back . And if , after you read the back , if you see the front and you read the back , you don't think that it's for you , cool . But I guarantee you it's for somebody . You know there's not a man or woman alive , that there's not one part of this back part of the book that isn't going to impact you or you're going to resonate and get something out of it . And the other thing is this is where I differ . I am different than other people and I'm not bragging . I don't care if one book sells or a billion , I don't care , because this book isn't about me . This book God used me in this to reach out to people and the eyes that'll get it , we'll get it , and those that don't don't like .
Speaker 1I'm not even whatever not even worried about it . You are the biggest open book I know , and I like that about you because you're . You have to be authentic . I believe in this world in order to to get the proper message across , cause , believe me , we can look on the internet all day long and see those who are just in it for themselves , and we do . We see it every day . Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and that's why there's so many of our young people .
Speaker 2I know we shit on the young and I'm guilty of it as well , but the one thing about this new generation that will be great later on is you cannot lie to them . Nope , needs to be transparency . Now you could say that they're misguided . What have you ? We were misguided when we were teenagers . Your teenagers are misguided . Everybody's misguided . Like that's just part of being alive . However , however , older people need to understand that this generation you cannot lie . Plus , we can't lie now with the internet anyways . Anything that you say that you did , trust me . That's why Steven Seagal only worked back when he did in the 80s and 90s , because nobody could actually do any background checks . Now , all the truth was it . I can't remember the same , but you know , eventually the truth comes out eventually . So I just be transparent and honest , and if you love me , great , if you hate me , great , and either way , great . It's all great your attention .
Speaker 1That's what why I was really excited about this book . When you first talked to me about it , too was like and I'm the reason we didn't work it through . So I'm not an editor , I can't , you know , and I'm not a . I am a creative writer , but I'm not at that editing phase of my life and I'm glad you had someone . I'm glad you had someone to get this through , because , yeah , the greatest thing is getting your message out there , man yeah , yeah , yeah , in a variety of different ways .
Speaker 2like , I think that that's one thing that we need to embrace is there's a what I do doesn't mean that's what somebody else should do . Some people again we have around us , just social media wise . There are a plethora of artists and creative people , and you mentioned it earlier the creativity that we all are born with . If we'll just not be afraid to show that creativity and embrace it . You just have a better life and you don't need to turn your creativity into money .
Speaker 1Yes , amen , brother , you think I'm going to be selling my paint by numbers over there ? Hell , no .
Speaker 2But they're going to make great gifts .
Speaker 1Oh no , that sucker's going on my wall . It's going to be . I don't even know how many days it's going to take me . I do a little bit at a time , yeah yeah , well , it's not your only paint .
Speaker 1And listen , I'm like a caveman .
Hope and Authenticity in Relationships
Speaker 1I'm like , but you know what ? Let me tell you something about paint by numbers . It slowed me down . Oh yeah , I am so used to like . You know , if I get behind a keyboard , I need to accomplish this . But with this thing I tell myself , okay , I'm only painting one number today , because that makes me go slow , cause if I said , okay , I'll do three numbers today , I'll , I'll watch it . So today I'm like I'm really just making sure that all the paint's in the right areas and I'm like , oops , I messed up a little bit . I'm like you know what Overall , don't take a close look at it , but it's getting there , man , I think I'm about five numbers in now . Nice , I'm excited about it , because here's the deal Memories .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1We have positive memories . Yeah , we have positive memories . And now I've I've probably driven past the Everglades , but I have certain memories of Florida when I was a kid with my brothers , right , so it brings me back to that and that's why I'm like , okay , this is going to be cool . So maybe my next one will be Charleston It'll be somewhere else where I have these really good memories . So bridges , I don't know something , but I I always look at memories when I do things now , I uh and find those positive points that keep us going yes , yes , yeah , yeah , because again I'm gonna use the magic word hope .
Speaker 1Yeah , hope we need , hope we need it and we really do , and we need genuine people around us yes , yes , yep , oh brother , I appreciate you coming on . Man everybody . The book is be a man . What the fire truck does that even mean ?
Speaker 2by marcus terryson yep , I'm still giggling . I was going to use fig newton , I would that . And then I thought , no , I'm going gonna get sued for that . And then somebody a christian friend of mine , I don't know we were doing something they went ah fire truck . I was like what is that music ? That's what we're doing with . Instead , I'm like yeah , oh I love it , man .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , I appreciate you , brother I I appreciate you having me on and you know actions speak louder than words . Right Like , let's be honest , and you're the only one to reach out to have me on about the book .
Speaker 1Really .
Speaker 2Yeah , and you know I'm not and that's not a slag , really . Yeah , and that's not a slag . It's just in moments where you're feeling insecure , when somebody takes the step to reach out and be authentically caring about what you got going on , there's that hope that , okay , I'm not an idiot , this is all going to work out and we all just need bread , like like cpr , of hope and that's . You know , that's what you did now . Whether you could have four million podcasts after this , because everyone's like , oh yeah , yeah , marcus , let's step on it doesn't matter , that's great .
Speaker 2But I can't forget that my friend jay just breathed a little bit of hope into me to be like okay , I was talking to Ben yesterday , we did a thing for skill set with the book . He didn't have to do that and you didn't have to have me on . You had a million other things to do . I just appreciate you , like I appreciate , appreciate you for a variety of reasons . I appreciate our friendship , but nobody's going to understand that friendship that's between you and I , but I appreciate that the effort , more than you know , I appreciate , brother .
Speaker 1That's why I wanted to have you on and I think everybody should have you on , because we got into certain parts of your story today and but not a lot into like and you know , with this podcast I don't really like going , I like to go where it goes . I don't be like q a but , like you know , marcus did this when he was like 17 years old and then he did this . So I think I think you really need a good podcaster out there who's going to take you and I want to hear you , I want to hear your story . I don't want to interview you about your story , because that's just not the way I work yeah yeah , you know , if we did , it would be like nine hours and we get in everything .
Speaker 1But I want to . I want any podcasters out there to be like bring you on a show , talk about your book , because I know what you put into this and I know your message is clear yeah , yeah , god , you're a good man , charlie brown .
Speaker 2I love you .
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